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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
badger82 · 28/01/2020 11:43

@bigchoc was much less brutal, will see what the scales do on Friday weigh in but I think much more sustainable and may make me less bingey, extreme deprivation all day is having a bit of a counterintuitive effect

Feeling good today

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2020 12:08

Well done on your FD and walk, Sydney

Well done with your new system, badger
If you nailed the calories, it doesn't matter whether that is in 1 or 2 meals
What really matters is which system is the most sustainable

Good luck today, nose, hummus, moon

I hope the salt gargle works, moon and zaps your sore throat
Good to hear your throat is better now, nose

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 28/01/2020 12:21

@EssentialHummus @moonlight1705 @noseovertail I am with you too! Just had half portion of soup and a wafer thin ham sandwich for 300 cals. Fishcake and broc for tea which will be c. 260 cals and that will give me almost exactly 1300 for the two b2b days...

It's so fricking cold here though! I just want to eat dumpings and face plant in red wine Grin - although probably best not to do the latter during the working day even if I wasn't fasting!

80skid · 28/01/2020 12:23

Hello everyone, looks like you're doing well. Apologies for not remember names, but I hope the grizzly baby gives you some respite today!! I've started my FD with a spin class, feeling good. I'm a real coffee fiend though - what do people like to have hot drinks wise that doesn't add to calories? I'm not keen on black coffee.
Have a great day everyone, nearly the end of January, the daffs are starting to peek through, it's all good Smile

noseovertail · 28/01/2020 12:43

ha ha harriet I feel the same :)

Sounds like you've got it all figured out hummus I hope I can get to that point eventually!!!

80s I just allow some milk on FDs to get me through the morning... I can't face black tea or coffee You could have some fruit teas??

Yes, I will be glad to see the back of January - it has felt like its had about 75 days so far!!!

moonlight1705 · 28/01/2020 13:13

harriet - I think we might be eating the same today, just had my lovely soup and a kiwi for lunch then I've got green beans and fishcakes for dinner. Agree about dumplings though getting some tomorrow now

I cannot do black tea at all so have my milk calories set up from the beginning - might be easier in the summer with cold drinks.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2020 15:34

Good luck, harriet, 80s

5C here, Harriet which is normal for January
80 kph winds though, so my Rhine walk was short as it felt much colder

80 hot drinks
Hot Bovril is just 10 cals per mug
Or herbal tea, optionally sweetened with Stevia tabs:

lemon & ginger (warming), hibiscus (good for high BP), rooibos (naturally a bit sweet), green tea (high in healthy flavanoids), peppermint (settles the tum) .....

For those who like milk with hot drinks, unsweetend almond milk (produced in the Netherlands) is only 7 cals per 50 ml

I recommend you measure out in advance your whole day's rations of milk - and sugar if you have it - and put it in 2 little pots

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 28/01/2020 16:05

hi 80skid, I certainly have a grouchy baby! He has been packed off to grandma's today as I'm working, and was pretty cheerful and gorgeous when he left - I looked like the living dead Hmm. I allow teas with milk on FDs as well - I think about 15 cals per cup, and no sugar. I did try herbal teas but the taste is never as nice as the smell promises.

Enjoy the fishcakes harriet and moonlight - I had them yesterday and they were great - Tesco finest cod and chorizo, mmmm. NFD here and have kept within TDEE. Two brisk and chilly walks for the school run and some errands at lunchtime has kept my step count at an average of over 10,000 for the whole month, not bad

80skid · 28/01/2020 16:35

Thanks, great idea pre measuring milk. I'll give almond milk a go next week (it was shopping day today so it will have to wait!). I have a quorn fish fillet, carrots and a tin of tomatoes for tea with some spare calories for raspberries afterwards if I fancy it.

harriethoyle · 28/01/2020 19:10

Kitchen closing on 559 which after yesterday's 760 brings me in just over 650 per b2b. Happy with that!

On the subject of fish cakes, the lidl melt in the middle ones are lush and c.240 cals each. Excellent bang for a fast day buck.

harriethoyle · 28/01/2020 19:12

@80skid @EssentialHummus @moonlight1705 @noseovertail how have you got on? Brew (0 cal obvs)

EssentialHummus · 28/01/2020 19:14

Just finishing off with a decaff coffee here. No idea of calories but seemed ok, a busy day so not too much thinking about food. And an early night looming. How did others get on?

EssentialHummus · 28/01/2020 19:16

The Lidl freezer diet ready meals are good too harriet - haven’t had them for a while but really rated them.

noseovertail · 28/01/2020 19:54

Struggled tonight.... resisted chocolate birthday cake and a glass of fizz but I'm coming in at closer to 700 as had chicken before we went to nephew's for birthday.... I'm wondering whether I can call this a fd or make today tomorrow and Thursday minis?

Well done hummus harriet 80s sydney how are you getting on moon

Flowers for you dealing with the grumpy baby sydney

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 28/01/2020 20:06

Hi all

I’m on and off the 5/2 wagon but long term reader and previous poster under a former name.

Loving your work still BigChoc!

Have done really good B2B FDs on Mon/Tues so thought I’d share my menu as I love reading menu ideas here.

Did exactly the same both days and prepped it all in advance. I found it really helped to mentally prepare myself having all my stuff boxed / plated / bottled on Sunday even.

I’m afraid I don’t have an exact calorie count but pretty sure this is around the 500 mark.

Breakfast and am - Loads of black coffee and sparkling water.

Lunch - 2 hard boiled eggs on bed of cress and spinach. No dressing

Dinner - kidney bean soup/stew with lots of chillis and tomatoes made from BBC Good Food recipe

Can of Diet Coke each day in the afternoon.

Keep going Fasters. You’re all inspiring.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/01/2020 20:13

Well done, harriet, hummus
and on your b2b, hands

For Thursday, I've bought a couple of the new Frosta low carb meals, only about 240 cals each:

Wild salmon with pea pasta, summer veg
Chicken teryaki with cauli rice, broccoli

They've only just arrived in Germany
Anyone tried them yet in the UK ?

OP posts:
80skid · 28/01/2020 20:40

@harriethoyle all good thanks. I'm tired though, which could be busy day/manic life/kids lurgi etc etc. Off to bed shortly anyway!!

Perusing my historic MFP, when I was pregnant with twins, I put on 20kg Blush. I weighed myself on the way out of the house to be induced and when I returned with 2 babies a couple of days later, only 3KG LIGHTERConfusedBlush. Twins are 4 now, and I fear the scales might not be too dissimilar. I did this WOE before I was pregnant and was really successful, but it's going to be a long journey unfortunately.

All the best for tomorrow folks. I'll be checking in to keep the motivation going, so thank you. Looking forward to some scale and non scale victory stories Grin

EssentialHummus · 28/01/2020 20:59

I’ve never heard of them bigchoc, just had a quick google and can’t find them for sale in the UK. I’m not buying many ready meals at the moment - there was I time I was eating them each FD - but we’re lucky to have a huge Sainsbury’s nearby with good fresh food and ready meal options, so I tend to head there when I want something easy.

harriethoyle · 28/01/2020 21:24

Hmmmm @noseovertail could you make tomorrow a b2b? @BigChocFrenzy will know better than me but I don't think c.150-200 cals will be fatal...

harriethoyle · 28/01/2020 21:26

I find ready meals mean I don't get tempted by proper food @EssentialHummus... just having to stick something pre-made in the oven or microwave kind of makes fast day food feel like fuel and easier to stick to, IYSWIM?

EssentialHummus · 28/01/2020 21:44

Me too harriet - I’ve never got on with MFP for calories; I liked that the calorie counts are written in plain sight!

moonlight1705 · 28/01/2020 21:45

Well done nose harriet hummus

I was going to end up bang on 500 but I've just got back from taekwondo and was so hungry so had a banana. Not feeling too bad though but am going to gargle salt water in a minute then head to bed.

harriethoyle · 28/01/2020 21:52

@EssentialHummus I love cooking but only when I can have a free hand with olive oil and cheese Grin

harriethoyle · 28/01/2020 21:53

@noseovertail that's very good to exercise on your FD Smile

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 28/01/2020 23:51

Agree on ready meals as I’m also rubbish at calories. The brand called Bol does a good cauliflower, sweet potato dahl at 275ish cals.