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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2020 14:58

Thanks all
My pizza bash - plus things on sticks ! - went very well

My boss recited what I'd done - with many compliments,
listed the 2 big tech prizes I won (years ago !) and everyone clapped while I blushed
Then in my memorised speech, I managed the correct prepositions and declensions somehow

Phew !

I am now a free woman 😄
Feels a bit strange knowing I'll never have to get up again to go work;
no more reports and deadlines
I'll miss the lads, but all pensioners - me now ! 😯 - are always invited to the works summer grill and the Christmas dinner

OP posts:
HLBug · 24/01/2020 15:06

Sneaks back in to wish BCF many, many congratulations Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2020 15:08

Good luck, MrD, inthethick, oh and any other Friday fasters

Sorry to hear about your throat, inthethick
As oh recommended, a salt water gargle can help
Or ask the chemist for a gargle; some work very well
On an FD, you might find honey increases hunger, if the sweetness raises insulin.

Congratulations on your SV, what

Badger MrBadger is a star to rescue you like that

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2020 15:11

Aay other Ladies (or Gents) Of A Certain Age nearing retirement, or already there ?
Fasting is the one weight loss / management method that seems to work for many post-meno

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 24/01/2020 17:28

Well done bigchocfrenzy sounds like they have you a really lovely send off.

OohMrDarcy · 24/01/2020 17:58

Congrats BigChoc, sounds like a lovely send off and that you will be missed!

Kitchen closed here on 503 after a good FD

Gruntysaurus · 24/01/2020 19:21

Not a fast day today but ended up having a slice of cake at a friends birthday party. Had a long dog walk after though so hopefully burned off a bit of it!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2020 19:26

well done on your FD, MrD
How are the other fasters doing ?

I'll probably fast tomorrow - I'm rather stuffed with pizza !
Anyone else for Saturday ?

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 24/01/2020 19:47

I'll swap with you bigchoc, I quite fancy a pizza 😉

noseovertail · 24/01/2020 19:58

Sounds lovely bcf congratulations Grin

Well done mrd
Fd finished here on 495cals, so so hungry, just put all the shopping away making a list of things I can have tomorrow Grin

Good luck any other fasters

Ohyesiam · 24/01/2020 20:43

Just closing the kitchen on 746 cals.

Tired aubergine boats ( as I had the oven on for the rest of the fam) and roast cauliflower soup for dinner. I loved the soup and quite liked the baked aubergine. Both recipes from The Fast 800 website.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2020 07:46

Well done on your FDs, oh, nose

OP posts:
noseovertail · 25/01/2020 08:17

Well don oh I love aubergines so might look up that recipe.

1lb off today, so 5lbs since I started on 2nd Jan, slow and steady, I'm never that person who loses big amounts, my body works very hard to keep me fat Wink

Good luck Saturday fasters

moonlight1705 · 25/01/2020 08:23

A lovely nearly 2lb loss (0.7kg) for me this week which am happy about.

Well done nose sounds like we are similar in slow and steady weight loss.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2020 12:28

Congratulations on your SVs, moonlight, nose
Lovely to hear your good news

You are both progressing steadily towards goal and have made some healthier choices
So you've achieved NSVs too and you should each pat yourself on the back

We all lose at the rate that suits our body
"it's a WOL, not a race"

OP posts:
noseovertail · 25/01/2020 13:38

Very wise words bcf 5lb loss in a month is not to be sniffed at!! Did you wake up feeling a freer woman today Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2020 13:50

Yep, first time I can remember since my earliest days:
kindergarten, school, uni, work - now, free at last !

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 25/01/2020 13:51

Congratulations bigchoc!

Well done moonlight and nose.

emcla · 25/01/2020 15:59

Congratulations and best wishes on your retirement bigchoc.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2020 18:25

Thanks again, folks

I've had a very lazy day, no training and a huge feta, walnut & honey flammkuchen (tarte flombe) to celebrate

I decided my FD would be tomorrow
Are you having a Sunday mini too, hummus or anyone else ?

OP posts:
ZazuMoon · 25/01/2020 18:50

Hello everyone and well done to everyone who has completed FDs this week. I had 2 successful FDs last week and then did 2 FDs and a mini the next day this week. However, I noticed that Friday and today I have had an increased appetite. Should I just keep to 5:2 to avoid this? I wasn’t particularly hungry on the mini day but then have been really hungry the following two days. Does anyone have experience of this or advice?

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2020 19:36

Zazu I would advise just doing 2 FDs
Many people - especially those who aren't experienced fasters - find that an extra miniFD or FD is unsustainable as a regular system

The extra fast doesn't lead to quicker loss if it causes bingeing, or even makes you give up

I recommend 4:3 only in special circumstances:
sometimes for busting a persistent plateau, or to achieve a shortterm goal for a major event
Even then, only for short periods and only for those who are comfortable fasting

OP posts:
emcla · 25/01/2020 19:40

I might try a mini tomorrow.

ZazuMoon · 25/01/2020 20:35

Thanks BigChocFrenzy. I’ll bear this in mind. As I’m still breastfeeding I find some days are easier to fast than others. It’s achieving consistency that will be my biggest challenge. When did people find they managed to get into the rhythm of the 5:2?
Good luck with any fast days tomorrow.

Ohyesiam · 25/01/2020 23:26

What counts s as a mini fast day?