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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
BigChocFrenzy · 20/11/2019 22:49

That's fine, sparkle if you are over TDEE some days but under it on others
No need to add a miniFD for that

If you do have a miniFD some time after a real feast say, then that is 800-1000 calories, with the same rules as FDs,
i.e. reasonably nutritious food, no alcohol, no junk

Well done on your FD, emcla, aber, what
and on your NSV, aber

Good luck tomorrow, 3kids

OP posts:
emcla · 21/11/2019 08:54

I’m on a b2b today. Good luck to anyone else who is on board.

emcla · 21/11/2019 08:55

I’m with you 3kids. Just saw your post !

moonlight1705 · 21/11/2019 09:21

I'm on a FD too emcla and 3kids and going to fill up on plenty of water and tea.

3kidsareenough · 21/11/2019 10:11

Fd day postponed!!!!! The vomiting bug has hit the house 🙈 up since 3 this morning with Dd 2 & Dd 3 🥴 don't think I can handle fasting but will have a healthy nfd (hopefully!!) will get on it tomorrow (providing I'm not 🤢 as well)

Good luck emcla & moonlight Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2019 11:56

Good luck, emcla, moonlight

Sorry to hear you are a lurgied house, 3kids
I hope you are all well again v soon 💐

Don't try specifically to fast with a stomach bug - obviously you won't want to eat much - just keep drinking water

Important:
Once all symptoms are gone, WAIT another 5+ days before you have an FD
The gut continues to be sensitive during that time and an FD can cause symptoms to flare up again

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2019 12:01

We'll have a new thread in another day or so.

Anyone have any preference for a thread title, or a mantra that you'd like me to put in a title ? Smile

OP posts:
emcla · 21/11/2019 13:10

I liked the poo crumbs one bigchoc but no preference.

Just had red pepper and tomato soup. Fd going well. How are you doing moonlight ?

emcla · 21/11/2019 13:12

I’m not eating again until about 7 pm and I had dinner yesterday at 530. I actually feel great. Energetic and alert and most importantly not hangry.

EssentialHummus · 21/11/2019 13:15

Something about 88 and two fat ladies bigchoc (like the bingo call)? Sorry - there's a good reason why I don't work in marketing Grin

Arifa97 · 21/11/2019 13:37

Hello everyone

Today’s the day where I do 24 hr fast for charity. Good luck to all the fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2019 13:38

Sounds like you're doing really well on your b2b, emcla
Probably you are getting energy from burning bodyfat stores

Hummus ... um, good to hear you don't work in marketing 😂

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2019 13:39

Good luck on your charity fast, Arifa
Do drink water through the day

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 21/11/2019 13:41

😂😂

SydneyCarton · 21/11/2019 15:18

Successful FD yesterday at around 620 calories. NFD today, no snacking. Had my first taste of crisps in ages when I shared a packet of quavers with the children at lunchtime. Okay but not as satisfying as proper salty crunchy potato!

DS (16 months) has refused to nap and now it’s too late, so I have to keep him pushing on until 6, ugh. Made some oatmeal and coconut cookies to give him a sugar rush Grin. Pasta bolognese for the DC, maybe a big salad for me, got feta cheese to use up. Good luck to the Thursday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2019 17:28

Well done on your FD yesterday, Sydney
I hope miniSydney is on schedule for a decent night's sleep for you both

OP posts:
emcla · 21/11/2019 17:49

Good luck arifa on your 24 hr fast.

Sydney well done.

MazDazzle · 21/11/2019 18:47

Managed to fast today. Haven’t had anything except black coffee and water so far.

Today hasn’t been easy and I was tempted to throw the towel in, but checking in here and seeing how everyone else is doing has spurred me on!

Fillybuster · 21/11/2019 18:57

Typically late FD check in for me. First day back in the office after 3 days away and it’s been carnage. Just 3 black coffees (& no water!) from 9-6.30! Barely got a loo break...Shock Had my flu jab on the way into the office this morning and my arm is now feeling so ache-y I’ve decided to skip boxercise this evening. Plus I’ve not seen the dcs since Sunday lunchtime, so perhaps I should go home Grin Sadly (unsurprisingly I guess) I was up to 9.12 this morning, so 2lbs up this week plus another 2lbs gained at the weekend. I can’t fit in another FD so will have to really focus next week on getting back to 9.8 before my birthday.

Fillybuster · 21/11/2019 18:59

Oops hit “post” too soon

Arifa - how’s your 24 hour fast going? Was thinking of you today

3kids - hope you’re surviving the chaos? That really doesn’t sound like fun. Keep washing your hands and try not to catch the bug....eek....

inthethickofit19 · 21/11/2019 19:00

@Arifa97 tell me more about the 24 hour fasts for charity please?

I wasn't fasting today because I was meant to go out but instead staying in with a takeaway.

I weighed myself this morn (like to weigh daily) and I seemed to have lost but then I weighed after weetobix and I was over a 1lb heavier!

Arifa97 · 21/11/2019 20:40

Well done on your FD sydney

Thank you, everyone, for your support. I'm still going strong-ish, I'm currently in bed because I am knackered after a busy day at work. Interestingly, I feel fine, although I did have a bit of a headache this morning, I'm putting that down to not having any caffeine today. After drinking water and getting fresh air that headache passed away very quickly. I did feel a little hungry at lunchtime but that soon passed. It was funny listening to my colleagues talking about how hungry they were despite eating breakfast and lunch, whilst I sat there feeling smug because I wasn't hungry at all. I ate my last meal last night at 7 pm and I don't think I'm gonna eat until 1 pm tomorrow. I don't really have an appetite for breakfast and never really have time during the week either because of work. So that means if I make it until tomorrow lunch I would have fasted for 42 hours, and I know I will.

About the fast for charity:
I am abstaining from food for 24 hrs to raise awareness about hunger and food poverty/insecurity for ConcernWorldwideUK.

I have a thanksgiving page www.justgiving.com/fundraising/arifa-saima. I would really appreciate it if you could donate whatever you can toward the cause. Your donation will make a huge difference to somebody. Any donations given by 24 December will be matched by the UK government.

Advice on breaking fast, please.
I'm thinking about maybe breaking it with a light soup or chicken broth.
I'm kind of nervous about breaking this fast, I don't want to overwhelm my system and make myself sick.

inthethickofit19 · 21/11/2019 20:53

Please link again @Arifa97

Arifa97 · 21/11/2019 21:04

www.justgiving.com/fundraising/arifa-saima

is it working? Confused

emcla · 21/11/2019 21:23

Well done all fasters I am finished for the day and off for a pint of warm water now. Night all.