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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 10:20

Good luck to Hummus, Skye, onko, bwydda & everyone else in the Monday fasting troop

I had to check the day, MrD when I heard you might be fasting Wink

Well done on your SV, Skye
A motivating start to the week for you

That's impressive, onko
it's a good way to fit in exercise - too early for the brain to think up reasons not to do it Wink

An easy stretching session sounds good, bwydda
A gently walk outside also helps loosen up and has benefits for the brain too

Poor you, filly I hope that nasty stomach bug goes soon 💐
Drink plenty of water all day

Once all symptoms the bug have gone, leave at least 5 days before you try an FD:
your gut may still be healing and fasting too soon can upset it again

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/09/2019 13:13

Afternoon everyone, a shiny new thread, cant believe I didn't post for over a week. Work and life is still so hectic, I feel like I don't stop lately, couple that with definite perimenopause and I'm feeling exhausted Sad I've had sore boobs for 7 weeks and counting, its actually really distracting.

Anyway, trying to stick to things though weekend was bit challenging, this week will be much better Smile Nfd today as totm arrived at 4.30am and I've no energy to cope with a fd today!

Well done on all the fantastic SVs and NSVs onko bwydda mrd and all the others and welcome pirate

Hope all you Monday fasters are doing well. I'm going to strive to log on and post more often.....

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 13:21

perimeno is tough, 43 but it does finally stop
Then the whole "no more periods" makes it all worthwhile Smile

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/09/2019 15:27

i know it does bcf but I'm only 45 so potentially have a good few years of this to come yet? I wonder is it worth visiting GP for peri symptoms or do they not do anything until in full blown menopause? its bloody miserable!

EssentialHummus · 16/09/2019 19:39

That sounds painful 43. I wonder if it's worth a GP visit just for a chat about what help you can expect when?

Kitchen closed here, no idea of calories - two coffees with a splash of milk, bean stew for lunch, a tuna salad with a boiled egg for dinner, a biscuit. Quite a difficult FD - not sure whether it was the weather, a slightly indulgent weekend or the mild stress of the toddler settling in to nursery today, but I am off shortly to brush my teeth so I don't inhale all the treats. Hopefully a b2b tomorrow.

How did others get on?

bwydda · 16/09/2019 20:23

Ive closed at 494. Had a horribly stressful day, and have pmt, which I suspect was exacerbated by hunger. But stuck to it and am am now relaxing with feet up and green tea. Looking forward to tomorrow's fast as with b2b I can eat up to 800. Well done all.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/09/2019 20:49

Well done essential and bwydda
Nfd done here and I'm around 400 under tdee but I'm fairly satisfied so going to bank them for the weekend Grin

Off to bed shortly, feeling shattered!

VanGoghsDog · 16/09/2019 21:07

FD here. Had my usual - nothing til about seven, then tuna salad, banana, wafer biscuit.

Not sure about the next one, tricksy week. I'm between jobs but have some private client work, which means I have a heavy day in London Wed. I can't fast as I don't really know how the day will go and it will be stressful.

If I do tomorrow then it's b2b which I'm not keen on, plus I'll be v low energy Wed am before this big client day.

Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun I'm away with my parents in York. Can't imagine fasting when with them, it would just cause no end of trouble.

So b2b it is!

onko · 16/09/2019 21:09

Kitchen closed on about 560. That’ll do. Perimenopause sounds horrid 43. I hope this current bout of symptoms goes v soon.
Hope you get over your tummy bug soon Filly

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 21:10

Well done on your FDs, hummus, bwydda
You both had to power through a tough day

and that was a good NFD, 43
You need that early night, all the sleep you can get while going through this life stage

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 21:14

Well done on your FDs too, VanGogh, onko

VanGogh I recommend early night tonight and especially tomorrow night, to give time for a good breakfast on Wednesday before you leave:
something substantial like e.g. scrambled eggs, tomato, mushrooms, wholegrain toast

OP posts:
VanGoghsDog · 16/09/2019 21:53

Yes, I was telling DP I'd need protein. Bacon and cheese. I don't like eggs, I wish I did though because they're so easy!

I hate mornings but he'll happily get up early and make me breakfast.

Right b2b it is, but I might go up to the 800 cals.

danni0509 · 16/09/2019 21:57

Just marking my place to come back too. X

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 23:58

VanGogh A couple bacon, mushroom & tomato sarnies with ketchup < dribbles >
Sets you up for the whole day, especially with wholegraín toast and open sandwiches

Your OH sounds ace, taking breakfast orders !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 23:59

Everyone welcome, danni Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 00:02

VanGogh b2b is 650 cals per day, but 800 each is ok too
Since you probably had under 500 cals on FD1 and hence you are already fasted, I'd recommend 800 for FD2

OP posts:
Skyejuly · 17/09/2019 07:04

I failed my fast day well and truly so am all for it today!

OohMrDarcy · 17/09/2019 07:12

No such thing as a failed FD skye - you postponed it is all Smile

Checking in for my Tuesday FD here

EssentialHummus · 17/09/2019 07:19

Checking in for a b2b here. Morning mrd. Anyone else joining in?

EssentialHummus · 17/09/2019 07:20

Ah sky, hello, missed your post!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 07:39

You merely postponed your FD to today, Skye Smile

Good luck, Skye, hummus and I think MrD is fasting too
Any more for any more ?

OP posts:
bwydda · 17/09/2019 08:12

Morning all. I'm fasting today, but b2b so have extra to eat. Woken in a much better mood than yesterday, confident it's going to be a good one. I've planned my meals- which will be wild mushrooms roasted with thyme and balsamic on toast, and chicken satay with broccoli and cauliflower rice later. Starting as I mean to go on with a pot of hot lemon and ginger.

EssentialHummus · 17/09/2019 08:37

Sounds fab bwydda!

Fillybuster · 17/09/2019 10:03

No such thing as a failed FD Skye - just a delayed one!

Bwydda I wish I could have you as my personal in-house FD chef! Sounds delicious!!

BCF I’m reluctantly taking your advice about not fasting for a few days (to be honest, that does seem sensible!!) post-tummy bug but a bit nervous about losing my rhythm as I’m travelling for work all week next week (which I find much harder) and have got 2 weeks with no opportunity to go to the gym coming up. Slightly scared of losing all my gains, and, more importantly, losing my new good habits Confused

Silver linings, post tummy bug (plus yesterday when I ate around 800cal) - scales read 9.11 this morning!!! Shock Still got some way to go and I know they will bounce back up again as soon as I start eating normally but it’s nice to see that they can show those numbers WinkGrin

43, I’m sorry things have been so tough. I have a suspicion that I’m in the same boat wrt being peri-menopausal and it’s really not much fun at all. Caitlin Moran wrote a brilliant piece in last weeks Saturday times magazine about feeling crap for ages and then finally seeing her gp & being prescribed HRT, and what a huge difference that made. She’s only 43/44 (I know she’s younger than me as she always makes me feel that I haven’t achieved enough with my life Grin) so it sounds like you might get some support?

Well done Essential & Darcy on your recent SVs!

Welcome to all the new posters - look forward to getting to know you Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 13:11

Good luck, bwydda

Definitely don't fast this week, filly
It would be so difficult if the symptoms returned / continued next week when you have to travel a lot
Try to relax and give yourself TLC: "It's a WOE not a race"

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