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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
OohMrDarcy · 16/11/2019 08:39

Well done moonlight!

MazDazzle · 16/11/2019 09:08

I’m down 8lb. Shock Obviously as this is my first week back after eating so much junk, then most of that is water and undigested food. Also, last week I was very bloated with PMS.

Usually I lose at a rate of half a pound a week, so I’m very impressed with your 2lb Darcy!

I don’t usually have breakfast, but hungry today so had toast, peanut butter and fruit. Hopefully I can stay focused over the weekend and will fast again on Monday.

Enjoy your weekend everyone!

MazDazzle · 16/11/2019 09:09

Sorry, just saw it was you who lost 2lb moonlight! Well done.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2019 09:55

Great to hear everyone's good news today Smile

Congratulations on a fab return, Maz

That's excellent, MrD
you are comfortably in the 13 stone somethings and past the 4 stone barrier

Well done moonlight
That's a really encouraging start for you

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 16/11/2019 11:28

Amazing achievements moonlight, MrD and Maz so impressed with our achievements

Whattodowithaminute · 16/11/2019 11:28

Your not our...

aberjenagain · 16/11/2019 14:09

Woo-hoo! Well done mrd, moonlight and maz - awesome SVs all round 🎉

EssentialHummus · 17/11/2019 08:52

Some wonderful SVs here! Signing in for a Sunday FD, anyone else about?

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2019 10:59

Good luck on your Sunday FD, Hummus
Are you doing a b2b ?

I've done a spinal exercises class at the gym
Now in my fav cafe looking out over the Rhine, just ordered brunch
Rhine walk later

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 17/11/2019 11:13

Sounds lovely bigchoc! I am aiming for a b2b.

moonlight1705 · 17/11/2019 17:11

Phew, just done a taekwondo competition and got 2 bronzes and 1 silver medal so hoping all this running about will help next week's loss.

I've had a good non FD day as well so feeling on top of it.

moonlight1705 · 17/11/2019 17:12

And meant to add well done maz and mrd

OohMrDarcy · 17/11/2019 17:43

Evening all

Been a glorious cold, crisp day down south here - I've been for a long walk for what feels like the first time in ages, garmin says I've done 20,000 steps but ore importantly I've been able to enjoy the weather after what feels like weeks of wanting to hibernate from crappy wind and rain!

Moonlight - congrats on the medals!

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to
5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to
BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2019 18:56

Fantastic, moonlight
Well done on your medals 🏅🏅

Great exercise in the great outdoors, MrD

How's the FD going, Hummus ?

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 17/11/2019 19:15

Well done moonlight! And beautiful pics mrd.

FD here has been fine - I think about 450 calories all in, with one main meal at lunchtime. I helpfully cooked DH and the toddler something I can’t stand, so no risk of temptation there Grin.

Spent time in the garden raking and weeding with the music going, and then took toddler round to her friend’s for the evening. Now back home and kitchen closed bar a coffee possibly. Will aim for b2b tomorrow - anyone fasting with me?

3kidsareenough · 17/11/2019 19:46

Hello lovely fasters (& all new fasters welcome) getting sorted this evening for fd tomorrow- have everything weighed out and in Tupperware ready to just throw in the pan tomorrow evening. Well done to all on your svs. I weighed on Friday morning and have 4lbs off 🤗 that's over the course of the last 2 weeks so that's a happy start. Definitely starting to feel it in the waist band of my trousers. Weekend eating has definitely improved too since I've started back at 5:2 so it's all good.

Congratulations on your medals 🏅 moonlight and lovely pics as well (raining non stop where I am Sad)

Good luck tomorrow Monday fasters and so impressed with those who do fast days over the weekend and b2b - one day HaloHalo

inthethickofit19 · 17/11/2019 19:57

Lots of wonderful SVs! And beautiful pics @OohMrDarcy

Checking in ahead of tomorrow's FD. I've been doing well with being mindful and drinking more water and I feel better through just not overstuffing myself. It's amazing how easy it is to get into the habit of overeating.

Whattodowithaminute · 17/11/2019 20:47

Well done on loss 3kids
I should be FD tomorrow with you hummus feeling awful today after inevitable over indulgence and lack of sleep last night so hoping for an early night and some healthy choices for this week coming.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2019 21:28

Congratulations on your SV, 3kids and waistband NSV
Good start and excellent prep for tomorrow

Well done on your FD, Hummus

Well done on your mindfulness NSV, inthethick
If you can form longterm healthy habits, that also helps lifelong weight management

What You'll probably feel better after a good night's sleep and then your tum getting a rest on the FD

Good luck everyone tomorrow - looks like a big Monday fasting troop Smile

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 18/11/2019 08:51

Amazing SVs all round - well done everyone!

Great pics MrD: wasn’t the weather lovely yesterday? I would have loved a walk but had too many chores to catch up on before heading off to Germany for a conference this morning.

3 days of conference food. Will try to be strong! I was 9.8 on Friday (yay!!!) but a couple of social meals over the weekend & big party last night resulted in 9.10 this morning. Aiming not to gain anything over the next 3 days, then FD on Thursday when I’m back (I know I can’t fast during a conference...crashed and burned last time I tried!)

Good luck to all the fasters this week Smile

sparkle789 · 18/11/2019 09:33

Hi can I join you all?
I’ve read through the whole thread and I’m feeling inspired and ready to do this!
I’m starting at 13.6 and ideally I’d like to get down to 11.6 and see how I feel then. My TDEE is coming in at 1895 which feels like a good amount for NFDs. I’m fasting today I’m going to try and not eat until tea when I have soup planned. Going to keep busy by deep cleaning the house.
The only thing that’s making me anxious is getting my calories wrong with our evening meals. I have 3 dcs and cook a lot of One pot meals. When I portion it up I try and get the right portion size but it’s not always going to be exact which makes the calories not exact. Can I take the approach that sometimes I’ll be slightly over, sometimes slightly under so it’ll balance out or do I need to find a more accurate way?

EssentialHummus · 18/11/2019 09:43

Signing in - good luck what, 3kids, inthe and welcome sparkle.

sparkle I do a lot of one pot dishes and my approach is usually to serve myself half the normal meal and then a large handful of broccoli or cauliflower alongside it - that way I know the calories are under and I don't feel I'm missing out. Others may have a more precise approach!

Bit of exercise this morning with Jillian sodding Michaels then the usual work/toddler combo.

filly wishing you well for your conference. Hope you get a bit of free time to wander around, too - bigchoc has totally sold me on the beauty of the German countryside Grin.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/11/2019 09:55

Welcome, Sparkle 🙂 and good luck

Don't worry about being exact on FDs, especially when you are easing in
See how you go for the first few weeks and if loss slows down, or is slower than you expect, then you can always tweak your system

Good luck on your b2b, Hummus
and well done on already having a JM torture session under your belt

You are still well under the 10 stone, filly
Definitely don't try an FD during the conference - although FDs can work well on the days you are travelling there and / or back

To help keep intake under control when actually at the conf:

  • NHS alcohol guide = max 2 glasses any day = drink lots of sparkling water all day
  • One Plate Rule = one plate per course, no seconds except veg
  • No snacks / grazing between meals = no conf biscuits, muffins etc - poo crumbs ! - keep a black coffee or glass of water in your hand during breaks
OP posts:
emcla · 18/11/2019 11:01

I’m fasting today. Anyone else on board ?

EssentialHummus · 18/11/2019 11:11

You’ve got lots of company today em - what, 3kids, inthe, sparkle and me. Good luck to us all!

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