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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
inthethickofit19 · 14/11/2019 19:15

Hi all, I am back after my bday celebrations. DP was off work for 2 weeks so it kind of dragged on 😳

Anyway I'm on it today, FD achieved 😁 I knew the first one was going to be hard whenever I did it so just took the plunge without posting beforehand like I usually would.

At 4:30pm-ish I had a 2egg omelette with sprinkle of cheese on top with 2 slices of bread. Came in around 500cals. Not the best meal I know but main thing is I got through the day 😁 going to drink some water and get to bed ASAP me thinks.

3kidsareenough · 14/11/2019 19:26

Another late check in for fd. Kitchen is closed on 480 but like you emcla think I'll have a nice hot cup of decaf with some almond milk before bed time - feeling extremely cold today at work so had about 5 layers on!! I'm the same emcla if I have breakfast then I could happily eat all day the later I break my fast even on a NFD the better (less meal planning to do too Wink)

Wow some fantastic svs & nsvs going down on this thread. 4 stone is an excellent achievement love reading these posts.

bigchoc was actually just thinking of my fast days schedule for the week coming up to Xmas hols especially with all the work lunches & communal eating of treats that does go on in my workplace - determined to keep it up and not get carried away with the feasting. It's so hard to be the black sheep and say no thanks I'm fine with my miso soup! But I did manage it today & all the happier for it now. Will have to keep the poo crumbs image in mind.

Well done Thursday fasters have a lovely weekend Smile

aberjenagain · 14/11/2019 20:41

Thanks everyone! Not going to lie, I am really chuffed Smile

mrd what a difference a year makes! You’re doing brilliantly.

Well done on the FDs filly, emcla, whattodo and 3kids (and others I’ve missed, sorry!!)

moonlight FDs do get easier as you get into the routine of them, you’ll get there

jcurve · 14/11/2019 20:53

May I join in? I’m back on 5:2 after putting on a stone over the last year which means nothing fits me very well!! I have had a lot of life stuff (crazy work hours and infertility investigations) and now things are a bit calmer I want to lose as much of the weight as I can before we start IVF in the New Year.

I started last Saturday and so today was my 3rd fast day. I did 5:2 successfully before my wedding & do best with fasting til dinner.

Today I had two cups of tea with soy milk and dinner was a small haddock loin steamed with dill, lemon and capers, half a packet of microwave brown basmati, and steamed greens. I had a small piece of 85% Lindt & finished the day on 472 calories.

The 5:2 diet isn’t “new” anymore but I’m really pleased to see it’s still working so well for so many.

MazDazzle · 14/11/2019 21:12

Well done inthethickof it and 3kids ans anyone else who’s fasted today.

Welcome jcurve. It sounds like things have settled down and you can focus on losing again.

I’ve had a reasonable NFD today.

Soup and fruit for lunch, 2 plain biscuits.

Lasagne and salad for dinner, followed by a few squares of chocolate.

Will have another FD between now and Monday, but not sure which day is best yet.

My DD has ASD and had a meltdown tonight. I’ve only just managed to calm her down. I’ll count the fact that I haven’t launched myself into a tin of biscuits or bottle of wine a NSV!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2019 21:17

Well done, what, emcla, 3kids, thickof

That's a good FD meal, thickof - eggs are top quality protein and it was v filling
You can boost veg tomorrow

3kids You did well to remember the poo crumbs and resist !

It's best to be elsewhere when junk is being passed around
It's fine to be offered, but imo very rude to do a nagging "gwan, gwan ..." as in Father Ted

Welcome, jcurve 🙂
That's a good start on your return to 5:2

Good luck with your weight loss and with your IVF next year.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2019 21:21

You did really well on a stressful day, Maz

I suggest you plan your FD menu in advance and do it tomorrow, so you have it under your belt.

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 14/11/2019 22:24

Gosh, lovely to see such a busy, active thread today!

Well done aber, well done mrd. Superb achievements. And well done Thursday fasters.

filly hope you survived Boxercise in one piece! Thank you for those Jillian Michaels recommendations - I've made a note, they seem like great "bolt-on"s to the 30 Day Shred. As it stands I really only manage to exercise on Saturday through Tuesday (when the toddler is occupied elsewhere) but I really feel the difference from these workouts.

Welcome curve!

NFD here - aimed for a mini and fell a bit short at 1,000 or so I think, not helped by an evening meeting in a pub.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/11/2019 23:14

Well done everyone :-) busy evening as got my dad visiting this weekend for his birthday so been cleaning and sorting and shopping etc. Fd done on around 600, this weekend is going to be v v difficult, 2 evening meals out, 1 lunch tomorrow plus birthday cake to make and eat Shock plus too much Wine and Gin I reckon... I might not have much time this weekend to log on but back on the fasting wagon Tues for me.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/11/2019 23:16

Welcome curve
Hugs maz that sounds very stressful, hats off to you for staying in control Flowers

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/11/2019 23:21

Argh I missed out nearly a full page of the thread, well done aber and mrd bloody amazing SVs, well done!

Oh wow filly that sounds a tough day but the unlimited champagne sounds fab!!

Fillybuster · 14/11/2019 23:46

Checking out (finally...) on 320. Utterly ridiculous day, but the advantage of fasting was that I didn’t reach for comfort food to cure my hangover. Just about survived boxercise class but then had to spend a couple of hours sorting out various dc issues when I got home at 8.30pm. Finally ate at 10.30!!! That’s the only reasons it’s such a low number, as I was too tired to eat more than that!

Whattodowithaminute · 15/11/2019 07:11

Checking in with a post FD SV weighed in 11st 12.4 which has broken the 12st barrier and puts me a stone down since I started with you fellow fasters. I literally couldn’t have done this without you so thank you!
Having nails done today as celebration (taking inspiration from MrD and the non food related reward) and aiming for a mini FD today too

aberjenagain · 15/11/2019 07:15

Congrats whattodo, that’s brilliant! Smile

emcla · 15/11/2019 08:19

Welcome curve

Any fasters today ?

Sub tdee for me today. Maybe even a b2b. I’ve done 3 fds this week. Weight in tomorrow.

Good luck to any Friday fasters.

Arifa97 · 15/11/2019 09:01

what well done on your SV
emcla good luck on you sub TDEE for today

I haven’t fasted at all this week but I’m just seeing how I’m feeling and just listening to my hunger signals. When my trigger times are for when I just want unhealthy food etc. So far Ive notice my mood affects foods my food decisions. If I’m in a good mood I make healthy decisions whereas when I’m tired, in a foul mood; I just want to stuff my face with junk or kill someone 😂.

Good luck to any Friday fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 15/11/2019 09:10

Morning all

Happy Friday!

moonlight - keep going, well done so far

Bigchoc - that is what I'm thinking too... am happy to just keep pootling along really. I know I will hit it by my birthday as long as I keep going.

filly - FD on a hangover, hardcore!

welcome jcurve

Maz - sounds like a fab result whilst dealing with an ASD meltdown to me

43 - enjoy the celebrations and well done planning next FD already

congrats on the SV whattodo

Checking in for my Friday FD here - planning a chicken stirfry later with some garlic and low salt soy.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2019 12:34

Congratulations on your SV milestone, What
Welcome to the 11 stone somethings !

Enjoy your nails reward Smile

Well done on nailing a tough FD, filly
I hope you enjoyed a good night's zzzzz after all that

Well done on your FD, 43
That sounds a challenging WE
Don't worry, if you resume fasting promptly next week, you can quickly zap any regain

Good luck on your FD, MrD and any other Friday fasters

Good luck, emcla
A healthy sub-TDEE sounds good, maybe a miniFD if that works out ?

Arifa That's fine to concentrate on forming good NFD habits
e.g. start first with stopping all snacking between meals
Then resume fasting next week if you feel ready

Well done on your exercise, Hummus
JM will boost your fitness or kill you and you'll find you can achieve more and more

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 15/11/2019 13:26

I hear you Arifa! I’m exactly the same.

Well done WhatToDo! Fantastic SV.

Took your advice BC and I’m making today a FD.

Have managed so far on just water and black coffee. I’ve taken a Thai veg curry out of the freezer for dinner.

Away to chug some more water...

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2019 15:44

Good luck, Maz !

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 15/11/2019 18:45

Kitchen closed on 502... bring on tomorrows official weigh in

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2019 19:26

Well done, MrD
and good luck tomorrow

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 15/11/2019 21:11

Today has been the toughest day of the week so far. Really felt the hunger and temptation, but managed to resist. Watching a movie with DC3 since the older two both have sleepovers, sipping fruit tea.

Glad I got the second FD of the week under my belt before the weekend. Was below TDEE on NFDs, so that gives me a bit of leeway for the weekend.

Well done MrD! Weigh day tomorrow for me too.

OohMrDarcy · 16/11/2019 07:42

Weighed in this morning at 13st 11.4lb which gives me a loss of 1.2lb and takes my total to 4st 1lb Smile

Well done resisting maz!

moonlight1705 · 16/11/2019 07:56

Weighed this morning as well and had a loss of 0.7kg or nearly 2lb in old money Smile

Despite being very obese, I don't tend to have pounds fall off me easily so quite pleased with that.

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