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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
EssentialHummus · 19/11/2019 09:20

you still enjoying the evil Jillian?

Yes! Though I've learnt that I have far more endurance if I put her on silent and get my headphones in. There's only so much I can tolerate of her "fear leaving your body" chat Grin.

Fillybuster · 19/11/2019 09:57

Hummus, that’s totally brilliant!! You’ve been “almost at maintenance” for so long - well done on sticking at it and making it all the way to goal!! Properly inspiring FlowersFlowersFlowers

Hummus & MrD- I was thinking of you this morning when I dragged myself out of bed at 6.15am (which felt like 5,15 since I only arrived yesterday pm) after a few too many glasses of wine at dinner (memo to self: work harder on the BCF hard stare tonight) in order to squeeze in a session with Evil Jill (level 2, since you’re asking, and lord I hate those chair squats with weights and arm raises....) before conference kick off at 8am. Was worth it though - and I bunked off a talk at 9.30 to fit in a nice healthy breakfast (omelette, smoked salmon, cream cheese, some Bircher muesli and yummy black bread....no pastries!!) which I’m determined will see me through until dinner with no snacking on the way.

BCF, I’m now channeling the Paddington Bear/Aunt Lucy hard stare when I think of you Grin Such a beautiful day in Berlin this morning, hope you’ve got the sunshine too? I’m trying to work out if I can bunk off the conference for a short walk today but sadly I don’t think it’s feasible Hmm

Sparkle, congrats on your first FD Smile

Aber, welcome back! Hope you had a lovely weekend?

Welcome to all the new joiners Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2019 11:10

Congratulations on reaching goal, Hummus
Fab news, especially that you feel your body has is just right now.

That sounds a sensible maintenance plan; you can tweak it later if you find you are still losing
Excellent that you are forming longterm exercise habits - that can continue to improve shape & definition, as well as fitness

Good luck, Moonlight, aber, MrD

Well done on the steps yesterday, Moonlight and the TKD class tonight
sounds a healthy menu today

That's a healthy start before your conference today, filly

Yes, it's lovely and sunny now by the Rhine, so I'll go for a walk shortly - just back after a spinal exercises class at the gym
If you intend to skip lunch, then I recommend a lunchtime walk outside, away from temptation

Time to visit JM again, MrD
because if you leave it more than a few days between sessions, she punishes your muscles !

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 19/11/2019 11:29

unfortunately I know from experience bigchoc Grin that may have something to do with why I've not gone back to it yet!

emcla · 19/11/2019 14:21

Well done hummus. Wow that’s great !

I abandoned my b2b today.

Hope all fasters are doing good

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2019 15:50

Never mind, emcla
You were only a bit over yesterday, so no real need for an FD
Try to make it a healthy NFD within TDEE

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 19/11/2019 16:46

Kitchen closed on 503, still freezing here so I'll make myself another mint tea shortly I think!

aberjenagain · 19/11/2019 19:46

All done on 400. Another busy day, and I haven’t drunk enough so feeling a bit headachey - must remember to drink more esp tomorrow for fd2.

Well done mrd

There always another opportunity emcla Smile

moonlight1705 · 19/11/2019 19:48

I managed 610 today as the fishcakes were more than I had checked on MFP (teach me to check the right ones) but feeling pleased I didn't subcumb to the siren call of the cafe etc.

aberjenagain · 19/11/2019 19:51

filly, it was a nice weekend, thanks Smile Been a while since I’ve seen my sister, so it was good to catch up.

Hope all’s good at your conference. Berlin is somewhere I travel to often but never see anything of - just tegel, hotel, and the inside of meeting rooms 🙄

aberjenagain · 19/11/2019 19:51

Well done moonlight

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2019 20:16

Well done on your FD; MrD, aber, moonlight

aber Drink some water
and tomorrow start the day with a glass and always keep a bottle with you to drink through the day

Yes the romance of conferences abroad 🤦🏻‍♀️ - Comparing hotel rooms in different countries
You have to return on holiday to see where you were !

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 19/11/2019 20:46

Wow @EssentialHummus well done!!!

I weighed this morning after 2nd fd yesterday and weighed the same Envy but I've lost 2lbs since i started on Thursday 😁

I've failed at the no snacking today but think I should be within NFD limit.

Might fast tomorrow instead of Thursday as friend and I are going to pizza HUT for dinner 😳 I know it will be a blowout but I'll be extra good on the days surrounding and I'll try my best to portion control

Whattodowithaminute · 20/11/2019 11:58

Well done @EssentialHummus amazing achievement. Good loss too * 2lbs is worth the effort!
Checking in for a FD today; had planned for tomorrow but now going out so today it will be!
Good luck to any other Wednesday fasters!

emcla · 20/11/2019 11:58

I’m on a fd. Hopefully better than yesterday Halloween Blush

Whattodowithaminute · 20/11/2019 12:57

Good luck emcla I had a really rubbish food day yesterday-although I wonder whether my perspective on what bad looks like is changing a little as I tracked it honestly on MFP and it came in on TDEE (unless Ive forgotten some of the rubbish that went in my mouthBlush) TOTM is my excuse...

BigChocFrenzy · 20/11/2019 14:36

Good luck, emcla
Keep drinking water

OP posts:
emcla · 20/11/2019 16:40

I’m on to it bigchoc. Thanks for the nudge x

sparkle789 · 20/11/2019 18:57

I went about 100cals over my tdee today as we ended up having Chinese take away for tea, but I picked a lower cal mean than I’d normally have and it’s not made me dove head first into chocolate like normal so I’m taking it as a win!
I think I might try a mini fd tomorrow to make up for it. How many calories should mini fds be?

aberjenagain · 20/11/2019 19:08

Checking in for fd2 - had a ready meal and a banana for lunch, and just about to have tea, should finish on just under 800.

Hope you’ve had a good fd emcla

sparkle personally I wouldn’t worry about the extra 100 cals, as long as you’re not going over on a daily basis, but if you’re worried you could just knock 50 cals off the next 2 nfds and you’d even out overall

aberjenagain · 20/11/2019 19:09

Oh, also nsv here - I am once again working on something horrifically tedious, but today the thought of distracting myself with food didn’t even occur to me Shock

emcla · 20/11/2019 19:20

Hi aber. All done here. Might try a b2b tomorrow and then a weight in on Friday.

That’s great aber that you didn’t think of food. Hope it lasts and for me too.

Whattodowithaminute · 20/11/2019 19:33

Still waiting for dinner here but should close on 550-ate a spare fish finger whilst the kids were having their dinner-not the end of the earth I suppose. We have visitors for the weekend so going to try and keep food in check but imagine I’ll be pushing/over TDEE on sat and sun once the wine is accounted for. Maybe an extra swim on Sunday will be possible...

Whattodowithaminute · 20/11/2019 19:33

Well done aber and emcla successful days all round.

3kidsareenough · 20/11/2019 22:25

Well done on your fds Wednesday fasters. Just checking in ahead of Thursday's fd. 2nd one this week - all prep done (veg for omelette in fridge ready to go in!!) have some soup ready for lunch time & of course buckets of coffee GrinBrew Who's on the fast train tomorrow?? Good luck

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