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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 17/09/2019 13:38

mmm bwydda that all sounds delicious :)

Thanks filly it is rubbish indeed, I love Caitlin so will search for the article and then make an appointment to see GP. Fab silver lining SV Grin hope your tum feels better soon

skye as others have said, you can't fail a FD just postponed, good luck with it today.

Another NFD for me today, its GBBO tonight and I'm treating myself to a slice of cake (all within TDEE) and a cuppa later Cake FD planned for tomorrow and friday

VanGoghsDog · 17/09/2019 14:47

B2B going OK so far, I've had four cherry tomatoes and a cup of green tea.

DP went out this morning to Waitrose, while I was still in bed, and bought 'high protein sprouts' to add to my dinner later.

I'm going to have some carrots and hummous as a snack soon, for my few extra calories I am allowed due to doing B2B. Then the usual tuna salad later and an early night.

I will instruct DP on the breakfast requirements! Bacon sarnie can definitely be done.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 17:35

Enjoy your NFD cake, 43

You've got today and tomorrow well planned, VanGogh

Not long to go before supper, fasters Smile

I'm sitting in my fav Rhine cafe, watching the boats in the glorious sunshine
Lovely to be in shorts & T in mid-September, so off for another Rhine walk now

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OohMrDarcy · 17/09/2019 17:37

Kitchen closed on 520 here, chilli delicious.

Also had 2 litres of water and a cup of tea so far. Will prob manage another 500ml and cuppa before bed.

Filly - kind of yay to the silver lining SV... Look after yourself!

43 hope the docs can help you a bit somehow! I'm not looking forward to all those changes when my time comes

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 18:39

Well done on your FD, MrD

Don't worry about peri / meno in advance, MrD - not eveyone has bad symptoms - I hardly had any, just sailed through and didn't need HRT or any other meds.

Oops tell a lie:
the one symptom I had was that I couldn't eat as much as I want every day - as I basically could before, being a lifelong exerciser - hence IF as my lifetime WOE, as well as being for the health benefits

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EssentialHummus · 17/09/2019 18:41

Take care filly, never fun when those sorts of things strike. Well done mrd. All done here, give or take a coffee - bean stew at lunch, tuna salad with an egg at dinner, biscuit, coffee.

IceniSky · 17/09/2019 18:57

43, I've had really painful boobs for several weeks too. I went to the GP this week because I have really bad pelvic pain around my left ovary, radiating down my leg and back pain. I have a scan next week and am silently freaking out as my nan had uterine cancer. I'm 41. GP thinks potentially a cyst.

Had a good fast day Monday.

OohMrDarcy · 17/09/2019 19:44

Thanks bigchoc - hoping I can keep blogging my implant and it can keep the AF hell at bay still (no actual need for the implant in the last 5 years beyond "I dont like periods" Wink)

Iceni - well done getting through a FD with that stress going on. Hope the scan goes ok and try not to worry in the meantime!

Well done to the other Monday fasters!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 17/09/2019 19:59

Well done to all you fasters 😀

iceni hope its nothing too troublesome for you, let us know how you get on Flowers

Ooh I'm so jealous you have no AF to contend with mrd Envy

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 20:01

Best wishes for good news from your scan, Iceni 💐
You did well yesterday to focus on your FD

Well done on your FD, Hummus

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OohMrDarcy · 17/09/2019 20:05

Sorry 43 Grin I'm one of the lucky few that implants work really well for!

bwydda · 17/09/2019 20:16

Hope your scan goes well icieni. Try not to worry.

MrD- the implant worked for me too- BUT it wasn't until I took it out and lost three stone in 8 weeks that I found out how much weight it put on me. (sadly the rest of the fat didn't follow it)

Kitchen closed for the day, at 680 which I'm happy with. AF is due tomorrow which coincides with weighing and measuring day, so hoping it won't negatively impact me. -repeats to self it's a marathon not a sprint it's a marathon....

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 21:40

Well done, Bwydda

I recommend NO weighing during_ totm:_
water retention can make the results meaningless and any blip can be demotivating

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VanGoghsDog · 17/09/2019 22:45

FD done, but going to bed with a headache which is a bit annoying with stressful day due tomorrow. Hopefully it will go.

Well done fasters.

OohMrDarcy · 18/09/2019 06:49

Bwydda I agree with bigchoc - the potential for fluid retention etc says I wouldn't bother weighing in during AF!

VanGogh - hope your headache is gone this morning.. did you drink enough water yesterday?

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2019 06:50

Well done on your FD, vangogh
I hope a good night's sleep has got rid of your headache

Tip to avoid FD headaches:
Glug a level teasp Marmite from the jar mid-morning and / or early afternoon
Even if you aren't a fan, regard it as medicine & just gulp it down with a glass of water after

Marmite replenishes salt & minerals that can be low while your body adapts to fasting.
It also boosts B vitamins

OP posts:
bwydda · 18/09/2019 07:38

I'm 1lb down and inch off my hips (nothing off waist this week) even though af came right on time :) I'm thrilled . Though I know that may not be the case every month, it's nice for now. That makes me 14.4.6.

I've booked a holiday in November- would LOVE to be 13 for that but would be happy with 13 and a half.

bwydda · 18/09/2019 07:40

7 weeks for a stone is somewhat optimistic I know

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/09/2019 08:46

excellent SV bwydda especially considering TOTM Smile

FD today, who else is fasting??

OohMrDarcy · 18/09/2019 09:16

Well done bwyda - fab scales and inches victories!

No fasting here today 43 got my parents over for dinner (in the country for a wedding). I'm having a go at a self saucing cake for dessert in the slow cooker ( for after our healthy main!)

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2019 15:26

Well done on your SV, bwydda and inches NSV

With your hols in November, concentrate on the 5:2 healthy habits for NFDs, especially the no snacking & the NHS alcohol limits
That gives you the best chance of having 13 stone and an lb number you can feel chuffed about

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Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/09/2019 17:31

Mmmm enjoy dinner with your parents mrd

OohMrDarcy · 18/09/2019 19:28

Dinner was lovely thanks 43 and the self saucing cake was amazing... definitely a once in a blue moon treat though!
Still came in under TDEE so I'm happy.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/09/2019 20:53

Excellent work mrd

Fd finished here slightly higher on 619cals, I needed 3 breadsticks Shock but not too bad considering.

Nfd tomorrow then fd#2 on Friday, although remembered yesterday its niece's birthday friday but I'll just decline cake and fizz!
Off to bed shortly as absolutely knackered 😴

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2019 22:08

Well done on your FD, 43
and an early night is always a good plan on an FD, to maximise fasting benefits

Most impressive, being under TDEE with a special dinner, MrD
Sounds lush, too

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