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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
OohMrDarcy · 20/09/2019 18:15

Keep focused 43, you CAN do this! Have the wine tomorrow if you still want it Grin

GrannyPenny · 20/09/2019 18:25

Checking back in to say hello to all. Maintenance is going good at the moment and I am still sugar free. I do crave from time to time but my tastebuds have definitely changed as I had to leave my sweet corn the other day because it was too sweet! Am another kilo down and although I'm not actively doing FDs I do find some days if I am very busy I end up with a mini FD without thinking about it. I guess it's become a habit so not something I feel I am doing without if you know what I mean.

Keep on keeping on everyone and enjoy the sun whilst it lasts!

OohMrDarcy · 20/09/2019 18:53

Fantastic new Granny, lovely to hear you are finding maintenance a natural progression. Thanks for the update

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2019 19:31

Wonderful to hear from you again, Granny
You are maintaining brilliantly - well, in fact still slowly trimming down without trying, which is perfect

Well done on your tastebuds NSV; so important for your maintenance and iirc your waist goal

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 20/09/2019 19:46

Nearly done here - prawn/edamame protein pot thingy with salad levels for lunch, and about to have roast squash and harissa chicken with more salad leaves. Puts me on 505 for today AND resisted both a pub lunch and another gelato van trip. Next week’s his last week for the season though, so think I will treat myself then Smile

aberjenagain · 20/09/2019 19:47

Well done mrd and hope you’re managing to keep on okay 43 - nearly there!

Always so inspirational to hear stories from maintainers granny Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/09/2019 20:12

Fab maintenance granny

Thanks bcf and mrd I'm holding on, but just got back from birthday celebrations and declined chocolate cake and prosecco, but I've had to have some chicken as I'm v v hungry, coming in at 720, I'll live with that....

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/09/2019 20:13

Well done aber :-)

OohMrDarcy · 21/09/2019 06:37

Morning all

Weigh in today has me at 14st 4.2lb which is a loss of 1.4lb and total loss now at 3st 8.2lb

It also means that I've finally broken the 3.5 stone barrier and the 50lb down barrier 🎉
Oh, it also means I'm over half way to my target, AND I've lost 20% of my total bodyweight since the start of the year.

Very happy with that, especially given the 2 relaxed / special meals this week!

Next milestone is breaking the 14st barrier and then hitting 4 stone lost.

Bring it on.

aberjenagain · 21/09/2019 07:04

That’s amazing mrd - congratulations! Such a huge achievement, and testament to your perseverance Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 21/09/2019 07:43

Wowee mrd that's amazing, you must feel so proud of yourself :-)

I'm weighing monthly so not stepped on today even though it was very tempting as feeling quite trim around the middle area Grin will see what next week brings.

OohMrDarcy · 21/09/2019 07:52

Thanks both, yes I'm definitely pretty chuffed!

Good luck for next week 43!

EssentialHummus · 21/09/2019 08:23

Well done mrd! That’s a superb achievement.

bwydda · 21/09/2019 08:34

Granny / mrd both really inspirational! It's such an achievement Smilewell done.

I'm nfd and going to have a bad one as I'm out all day watching rugby with the boys. A few pints and a curry will feature.

BloggersBlog · 21/09/2019 09:14

Wow @mrd that is an incredible loss, well done!!!

AutumnRose1 · 21/09/2019 11:14

hi everyone
may I join?

if anyone can relate, or has words of advice...my situation is that I went on ADs about 10 years ago and had a shockingly fast gain. It sort of got to the point where I just saw myself as "no longer slim" but needed to keep on the meds.

So then over the last couple of years, I didn't care about it even more....and then gained another two stone!

I've always been physically active but now, at about 4 stone overweight, I actually get on my own nerves with my exercises and I've noticed my core has become incredibly weak; probably because it's carrying too much already so when I try to do exercises that were my usual, I feel it.

Also, I'm 43 now and I really dislike vigorous exercise. I used to love it - again that might be the weight gain.

so I'm aiming for 16:8 but my patterns might be different. I like to start eating much later in the day, ideally I wouldn't eat before 5, or ultimately become a OMAD person.

sorry for going on. Just hoping to have some daily encouragement from this thread.
I've been reading the stories and seeing some great results. Does anyone think 2 stone off in 3 months is realistic or is that mad?

thanks.

VanGoghsDog · 21/09/2019 11:33

I hate all exercise except walking!

VanGoghsDog · 21/09/2019 11:37

Bugger, most of my post got deleted.

Right, try again.

The more you have to lose, the 'easier' it is. I usually find the first six pounds go quite quickly.

Two stones in 3m is ambitious. Usually it's about a pound a week. Better to commence a sustainable eating plan that means you lose weight slowly but are more likely to stick to.

AutumnRose1 · 21/09/2019 11:40

Re pound a week, I thought being bigger I’d be more likely to be able to lose more?

Whattodowithaminute · 21/09/2019 12:11

Another one keen to join weighing in at 12st 13, ideally want to get sub 11st 7. I think 5:2 could work well for me as DH is out a couple of nights a week which may dictate my fasting days well. I need to get a grip on snacking.and eat proper meals before 8pm... will use MFP yo get started.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2019 13:41

Congratulations on your SV, MrD
Wow what a fantastic list of milestones !
Brilliant achievement

You did really well on your FD to turn down that cake, 43
DId you remember the Poo Crumbs mantra ? Grin

Delic menu, aber and you also nailed the FD by turning down temptation
Definitely celebrate end of season next week and schedule the FD accordingly

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2019 14:03

Welcome, AutumnRose, WhatToDo

AutumnRose: yes, people with more to lose generally lose more quickly for at least the first month
However, it is very individual and also meds like ADs or steroids can make loss more difficult,
because they not only increase hunger but can change insulin metabolism to store more bodyfat

As VanGogh says, the best plan is to choose a fasting system that is sustainable over the months for you.
Also, try to develop suitable longterm habits, so that you don't return to your old WOE - and weight -

Without FDs, most people on 16:8 still need to achieve a weekly calorie deficit, by cutting out either breakfast or supper,
i.e. the shorter eating window on its own can help to lose a bit, but the main help is that it helps consume fewer calories

Try not to graze or snack between meals on 16:8, so eat 2 or 3 meals, nothing between

I strongly advise against OMAD as a daily system

It's a good - and quite healthy - FD tactic for those who do 5:2, since the meal is only 500 - 800 cals, i.e. a normal meal size
However, on NFDs or 16:8, OMAD usually develops a habit of huge meals which is difficult to break later
Few women stick it for long, as after a few weeks it doesn't bring the expected results - it works much better for male weightlifters with huge TDEE

Research has also shown that longterm, OMAD with its v large amounts of food at one, go increase the risk of CVD

WhatToDo Yes, a key to loss for most people is to stop the snacking / grazing habit
Eating between meals - even "healthy" snacks like fruit - keeps insulin raised, which increases overall hunger and hinders fat-burning
Research has shown that snacking on average increases the total daily calorie consumption

For best results, try to keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of an NFD meal
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut right down on fizzy drinks, including diet ones (sparkling UNflavoured water is fine)
OP posts:
AutumnRose1 · 21/09/2019 14:29

Thank you for the welcome and the advice.

One thing I noticed skimming through is a lot of posters feel OMAD is natural to them and it certainly seems very convenient which is one reason I thought I’d aim for it.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2019 17:35

Several posters on these threads use OMAD for FDs, which is absolutely fine, as the FD meal is small / normal size
Few if any here regularly have OMAD on NFDs

It's also OK as an occasional strategy for days with a special social event and a v large feast meal

However, I've noticed over several years of these threads, that OMAD only works for a short time, before people begin to have problems with loss stopping and / or unable to keep to it
Also, the research that it increases the risks of CVD mean that it is an unhealthy WOE

OP posts:
VanGoghsDog · 21/09/2019 17:45

What's CVD?

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