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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
bwydda · 28/08/2019 08:33

Hi all, just checking in for planned fd no2. I'm exhausted today and have a really hard day ahead, and am already worried that I'll fail. But dh has decided to join on and is chomping at the bit to start himself so i agreed to do it together.

It's nice to hear that there are no fails. I know I can always delay but seeing someone else say that it's not a fail and seeing others change their plans- I think it's reassuring that the woe is that flexible. Well done for trying onko - I think it's good that this allows us to move with life and circumstances.

OohMrDarcy · 28/08/2019 08:58

Morning bwydda -

It is a very flexible WOE - its also important to not set yourself up to feel... if you are completely exhausted it might be worth moving to another day - but nothing wrong with keeping the day flexible and see how it goes for now. Good luck!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/08/2019 09:07

morning everyone and well done to all those who fasted yesterday.

filly your veg looks amazing, and don't worry about the holiday gain, it'll soon be off after a couple of good FDs

good luck on bagging the perfect flat bcf

I'm thinking I might do weds thurs fri mini FDs this week as I now have some meetings at work that will make today and fri difficult to properly fast, so that is between 800-1000 cals yeah??

Good luck to anyone fasting today Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/08/2019 09:10

wow.... cross posts with lots of you just then.

As you'll see bwydda onko its fine to move days, or even do 3 mini fast days if that suits better, it is very flexible and never a fail!!!

mrd you sound completely in the zone Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 28/08/2019 12:40

Good luck, bwydda, onko

"No such thing as a failed FD, just a postponed one"

Yes, flexibility about which days to fast is one of the advantages of this WOE
and never the downer that you've "failed"

Good luck, 43
Yes, 3 x miniFDs give about the same loss as 2 x 500 FDs

Superb forward planning, MrD
You're obviously a very organised, methodical person - the new you ?

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 28/08/2019 13:13

ha BigChoc - not sure I would say I'm naturally very organised .... one of those classic stereotypes of the intellegent person with chaotic mind actually Grin However, I work in IT so am always at my laptop, decided to make good use of that and now I have a spreadsheet - it pops up to remind me to update and I archive off old meals so if I can't think of something I check back to see if there is anything I fancy in the archive!

Might be bizarre to many, but it is definitely working for me. Started off only doing the main meal of the day in there, but I often do lunches as well now too.

EssentialHummus · 28/08/2019 14:24

Hi all, just checking in as I've been a bit quieter than usual, but reading everyone's SVs and NSVs. Also checking in for a bit of accountability - off to the in-laws tomorrow so my next FD will be Sunday (if I can manage a FD while travelling, which often can be nicer than airline food etc) or Monday if not.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/08/2019 14:52

Stay cool with the outlaws, hummus

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/08/2019 16:22

Good luck hummus I know that a visit to my in-laws would involve a shed load of Gin Wine to get me through it Grin

EssentialHummus · 28/08/2019 17:47

Luckily, as they live in rural Russia, the only alcohol on offer is (low-calorie) vodka Grin. They're lovely really. The language barrier helps Grin.

bwydda · 28/08/2019 18:17

I've managed the day on flavoured tea and an egg. On 88 cals right now and about to have dinner, which is duck breast (no skin) with beetroot mousse and watercress pea shoot salad. That'll mean closing kitchen at 608 cals which I'm happy with. I could make it less by omitting the duck, but I think for my 2nd fd and to avoid food waste it's fine.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/08/2019 18:33

That sounds absolutely fine bwydda enjoy your dinner.

Mini fd finished here on 860cals so happy with that

That set up sounds perfect hummus hope you have a good trip Smile

OohMrDarcy · 28/08/2019 19:14

Well done on the FDs 43 and bwydda

Hummus - loving the sound of the language barrier plus vodka helping you through!

onko · 28/08/2019 20:35

Kitchen closed on about 535 💪. In love how supportive EVERYONE is; I really have felt like a useless fasting failure but in effect all I’ve done is switched my days around 😊
I love the sound of your meal bwdda. My FD meals are basically microwaved veg and protein with Cajun seasoning to stop it tasting completely rank

BigChocFrenzy · 28/08/2019 20:53

Well done on your FDs, bwydda, onko
and on your mini, 43

You're doing fine, onko
So give yourself a pat on the back
and on this WOE < wags finger sternly > no more talk of being a failure

"The language barrier helps" 😂😂 hummus
and the vodka

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 28/08/2019 23:10

Hummus, surely you reach a certain point in vodka consumption when the language barrier ceases to exist?! Grin Have a great trip!

Well done Onko, 43 and bwydda - sounds like you all had great FDs today! Bwydda, I want you to organise my FD menus please...Grin

MrD - I need your spreadsheet!!

Good NFD today. Scales were back to 9.13 this morning but lamp chops and jacket potato for dinner will probably push them back up tomorrow. AF due over the weekend which never helps either. Decent gym class but I’m aching from last night still! Ah well, who’s joining me in a FD tomorrow?

OohMrDarcy · 29/08/2019 08:11

congrats on the SV Filly, I'm joining you on my regular Friday FD

Attached a bit of my spreadsheet for those interested... It is a bit all over the place but it makes sense to me... for EG - on one of the FDs it says Chilli and Rice, kids will have with, I'll have without. Doesn't show all the veg but they are in my head too Grin eg - last night we had carrots, brocolli, green beans and peas with the sausage, mash and gravy!

Beef Casserole in the slow cooker for tonights dinner - assumed I would be knackered after both kids had sleepovers last night but was an easy one.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !
BigChocFrenzy · 29/08/2019 08:19

Congratulations on your SV, Filly
Looks like that holiday gain will soon go, as expected

Impressive spreadsheet, mrD

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 29/08/2019 09:18

Thanks BCF & MrD - it doesn’t feel like an SV as I’m mindful that I was 9.10 when I went away and so am now even further away from my final target (9.7) but it’s certainly a move in the right direction! Even better, scales were the same this morning after a NFD, which is usually where things fall apart for me. We’ve got a fairly social weekend coming up, and big meals with friends on Friday, Saturday and Sunday (eek!) so I’m keen to get back into a good headspace to tackle that in the right way Smile
FD today: a looooong day in the office followed by a boxing class...dinner will be late!! I don’t have a plan but I’ve got a selection of sub 500 options in the freezer and asparagus in the fridge - just need to make it through to 9pm and all will be well....only another 12 hours from now ShockHmm

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/08/2019 11:20

well done filly and good luck today, sounds like a very long day indeed! Do you prefer to just have one meal on a FD??

day 2 of my 3 mini FDs and so far just a latte, meeting a friend for lunch so will just have to see what I can get and hope they have some sensible choices on offer. Zumba class is back on tonight after a period of many weeks, I really don't want to go (hate it), but I've already text my friend to say I will so now I have to go Grin

Good luck thurs fasters Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 29/08/2019 14:50

Good luck, filly, 43

43 Is there another class you can try, to see if it is more fun ?
e.g. pump or spin or taebo are excellent for IF

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/08/2019 15:03

So lunch was okay I think..... place we went had a salad bar, I stayed away from the creamy pasta and rice salads and just had salad leaves, cucumbers, tomatoes, spoonful of beetroot, spiralised carrot, spoonful of roasted courgettes and peppers (not oily), 3 halves of boiled egg and a spoonful of coleslaw and some vinaigrette - any guesses how many cals for that!

bcf i hate most exercise except walking and horse riding, I also go with a friend which makes it more sociable bearable Grin but I could have a look around for options.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/08/2019 16:40

Sounds healthy & tasty, 43

You'd probably enjoy taebo - fast music, burns more calories and it's just such fun Smile

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 29/08/2019 17:06

43, I feel you! The only exercise I really love is horse riding, skiing & scuba diving...none of which are cheap or easily accessible given that I live in London! I do try to ride once a week but even a focused flat work or jump lesson isn’t remotely enough to stay in shape on its own....plus I’d far rather hack when the weather is good Grin
I (re)joined the gym after 3 years off about 2 months ago - I’ve gone super cheap this time (Pure Gym) - and cant believe how much I’m enjoying the classes. I hate dance type classes (even tho I love dancing) but am really enjoying pump, box fit, burn etc type things and am loving the range on offer. Not tried any of the spin stuff yet but they have that as well. Maybe worth a go? Far more fun than working out on gym equipment or a dance class you don’t enjoy!

Fillybuster · 29/08/2019 17:07

Oops - posted too soon. Meant to say that you can pay monthly with no contract so you don’t have to commit long term (which is always the killer if you’re not sure!)