Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
OohMrDarcy · 26/08/2019 11:26

Didn't make the sunrise this morning, turned out I needed sleep more.. woke up at 8, 2 hrs later than I have all summer 😱

Did you have your dip bigchoc?

I've got some leftover sausage casserole for tomorrows FD and will add extra veg. Already has chopped tomatoes, celery, leek, and carrots I think will do some brocolli and green beans to go with I think.

Bit sad the summer holidays are nearly over, but really proud that I've survived them this time - 3 years ago the summer hols was the final nail in my fasting coffin for a while!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/08/2019 13:00

No, I didn't paddle, MrD - I was too deep in another Kindle series Blush < bookworm alert ! > and enjoying my cool ceiling fans

That's an important summer NSV: that you've stayed on track this year

OP posts:
IceniSky · 26/08/2019 13:09

FD today. Been for a 5k jog early this morning and planning a tomato and chickpea bake with qourn fillets and green beans this evening. Thinking if having a miso soup as feeling a bit dizzy.

Still no AF which is becoming annoying but also a bit worrying. I'm about a 35 day cycle, but get PMT for a full 2 weeks. Thinking perimenopausal as 41, making it more irregular.

bwydda · 26/08/2019 13:47

I'm fasting for the first time today. Just had courgette spaghetti with fried bacon (30g no fat) shallots and garlic. Came in at 153 cals , and I'm having a chicken and pak Choi noodle free ramen later (380). It's not as hard as I'd thought, though I am very glad that I'd planned ahead and stocked up on flavoured teas etc.

OohMrDarcy · 26/08/2019 15:10

Well done bwydda - in my experience planning ahead is the key to success when getting used to it

tuttifritti · 26/08/2019 16:22

Well done to all the fasters. Love all the recipe inspiration.

I'm finding it tough on a bank holiday. It definitely feels like we should be stoking up the bbq but we did all that yesterday. I had a lovely omelette for lunch and my husband has bought me what looks like a delicious pea, broccoli and spinach soup for dinner which I am very much looking forward to.

IceniSky · 26/08/2019 16:48

I've baked some carrot, apple, courgette cinnamon honey muffins, ready for school. Bad idea on a FD. Going to pack one for work tomorrow.

tuttifritti · 26/08/2019 21:09

So I closed the kitchen on 415 calories but my stomach is growling. Should I have a banana or not?

BigChocFrenzy · 26/08/2019 21:16

Well done on your 1st FD, bwydda

Maybe clean your teeth instead, tutti

Yep, sounds like you're probably in perimeno, iceni

OP posts:
bwydda · 26/08/2019 21:28

I finished on 599 having caved and had some fresh pineapple and cinnamon.

Happy with that tbh Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 26/08/2019 22:10

That's fine, bwydda
I recommend an early night now.

OP posts:
tuttifritti · 26/08/2019 22:22

Thanks Big Choc. I cleaned my teeth but had a teaspoon of marmite first.

Well done Bwydda

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/08/2019 07:12

Morning everyone and welcome to the newbies Smile well done on the svs and nsvs

Had a really bad weekend, totm arrived unexpectedly on Thursday (a week early) and I've just eaten and drank all weekend with our visitors, like I was possessed, even dh mentioned how unusual it was Blush bloody hormones and lack of self control!

aiming for fd tomorrow and Friday this week, I feel HUGE Sad here's to a better day today. Good luck tues fasters.

OohMrDarcy · 27/08/2019 07:58

Morning all

I'm all ready for a FD today, and needed after accidentally inhaling a tube of pringles over the weekend Blush

Got sausage casserole for my meal and have bought some skyr yoghurt to try finally with strawberries for dessert - and all for under 500 cals Grin

Anyone fasting with me today?

43, sorry to hear about your tough weekend, but it's gone and back to normal now!

onko · 27/08/2019 08:54

Morning all.
I’m fasting Mr D. Good luck to you and any others.

So I’m aiming for my first proper FD since 8 August Blush but I think Jillian may have helped me contain the damage (although I am now on L2 of 30DS and want to stab her in the eyeballs). Had waaaaay too much booze over the weekend but did a couple of runs and kept calories well within TDEE
so feeling back in the land of control. I’ve realised I’m much better at doing something (eg exercising) than not doing something (eg not eating 3 almond magnums in a row).

Chapeau to all the bank holiday Monday fasters - v impressive.

Fillybuster · 27/08/2019 08:58

Back from a fab 2.5 weeks in Greece - had a great time but seem to have enjoyed all the food just a little too much Blush Scales reporting 10.2 this morning, which means a 6lb gain & most of my losses back on again. (BCF, please don’t shout at me...I know...Sad)

On the positive side, it was a really active few weeks and I don’t look anywhere near as flabby as last time (plus I managed to work out properly a few times) so I’m hoping that a few focussed weeks of good NFDs along with my FDs will get everything back on track. I suspect most of the gains were in the last 4 days when we were staying HB at an incredibly plush hotel - even though we were ‘only’ having breakfast and dinner we all ate a huge amount and I completely failed to adhere to the one plate rule.

FD today and 45 mins of HIIT at the gym this evening on my way home from work. Meal plan is a long fast followed by butternut squash tagine & a little bit of quinoa. Carrot sticks in my bag to hold off lunchtime munchies.

The hardest part will be ignoring all the lovely Greek sweets I’m taking into the office to share with my team. But I think I’ve enjoyed those quite enough already...! BlushBlush

Right, off to catch up with the thread. Hope everyone is doing well? Will post properly this evening.

Good luck to all the Tuesday Fasters Smile

OohMrDarcy · 27/08/2019 09:22

Lovely to see Filly and Onko fasting with me today

Filly - don't worry about the gain, bet it goes quicker than you think!

onko- I used to love / hate JM 30DS .... level 2 was the hardest for me by far! Can't remember why... must dig it out and see how I manage - back to level 1 obviously as it has been years!

BigChocFrenzy · 27/08/2019 11:47

Good luck, MrD, onko, filly and any other Tuesday fasters

Well done on the exercise, onko - JM is an evil woman 😂

I recommend planning on which days you want a treat and then just buying one portion of it
Much easier to resist 2nd helpings if you have to go out and buy it again.
Anyway, bulk buying is less economical when you know you're probably going to eat 2 or 3 Wink

Don't beat yourself up, 43 - just move on
totm is notorious for munchies, so I recommend avoiding any junky treats during that time, becuse it is so difficult to stop

Plan nourishing meals with masses of veg, sensible amounts of protein and slow carbs, with a little fruit
Beans, peas, lentils help stabilise blood sugar, so aim to pack these into a meal most days

Welcome back, filly
Noone gets shouted at here 😂 and we don't do guilt either

Don't worry, as MrD and many others have found, if you address holiday gain immediately, it is only temporary (unless the holiday is 3 months !)
Most of this "gain" is usually just undigested food and retained water due to excess carbs, so a couple of good poops and FDs should get rid of all / most.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 27/08/2019 17:26

Kitchen closed on 495 here, the skyr was alright actually (high praise from a non yoghurt eater) so will eat it again I'm sure.

Got another bottle of water and a cup of tea or two later should I need (or another bottle of water if it doesn't cool down soon!)

How is it going for you guys onko / filly ?

Fillybuster · 27/08/2019 19:12

Well done Mr D - sounds like a really good FD Star I’ve had a bonkers first day back at work & am currently battling London Underground in an attempt to make it all the way back across the city for my gym class. Not eaten anything at all yet today, just black coffee and water so far. Slightly hoping I won’t make it to Pump in time...HmmGrin

Still not caught up on the thread...normal service will resume shortly Bear

BigChocFrenzy · 27/08/2019 19:56

Excellent FD as usual, MrD
I'm a Skyr fan; it's so creamy and the high protein makes it filling

I hope you make your pump class, filly Grin
but that sounds a very tough day back at work

Both of you, drink some more water. I've just done that too
33C again here, but it should be 22C from Monday, bliss - except it'll be rainy

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 27/08/2019 23:43

Closing out my first post-hols FD on 362 and finally catching up on the thread. Made my Pump class (just about...I was late...!) and loved it - so hurrah!!

Welcome to all the new(ish) fasters 😀

I’ve come back to find the garden has gone ballistic!! I’ve got so many beautiful purple runner beans (they turn green when cooked, so look like regular beans, but look amazing when growing) and an unbelievable amazing of tomatoes. Aber sadly my courgettes haven’t done as well as yours, but maybe there’s still time?! And my broccoli is giant but there’s nothing edible in sight...although the cabbage white caterpillars are doing their best!

Made a huge batch of Ottlolenghi runner bean and tomato stew yesterday- I don’t have specific portion sizes but there’s almost no oil and it’s just beans, tomatoes, onion & garlic (& herbs, spices etc) so pretty low and perfect for FDs. Happy to share details if anyone is interested

Sydney - how’s your back?

Groovee I loved reading your update about coming back from your hols and facing into the next part of your journey. Thanks for being so open, and huge kudos on being so brave. Definitely here to cheer you on, and for hand holding when you need it Flowers

MrD have now caught up on your holiday update. You were far more controlled than me! Blush I did ok on the first week when we were self catering (so no problem skipping breakfast, avoiding dessert etc) but then we had 11 days in several hotels which had seriously impressive breakfasts, and I succumbed!! Shock Great to see you enjoyed being out and about around the pool - what an amazing SV!! You look lovely in the dress, btw Grin

BCF how’s the retirement location search coming along? Your comments about the drawbacks of OMAD really resonated with me. I realise that part of my weight gain is that I had unintentionally ended up doing exactly that on a regular basis: not eating anything at all the whole day, then having a very large dinner & not keeping track of quantities or calories because it was just one meal. And it definitely had an impact on my appetite over time too. Probably why I’m still finding NFDs more challenging than FDs, although I think that is starting to get better

at Hummus, Onko, Iceni, Surprised, 43, Tutti and everyone else Smile

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !
5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !
5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !
BigChocFrenzy · 28/08/2019 06:26

Excellent 1st FD back, filly
and well done on the pump - training often turns out to be much more fun than one expects

Your garden veg looks gorgeous
Can you post your veg stew recipe please - it sounds very handy for FDs

Yes, I've decided on the Rhine town for my retirement:
the one I'm in now (!) because my gym suits me perfectly, good restaurants and I've made friends here

Now I just need to get in first when the rare large flat that's ground floor or with a lift becomes available
(with my eyes, I've had to rule out stairs, but that does eliminate 95% of places)

OP posts:
onko · 28/08/2019 07:26

Great FDs Mr D and Filly (another one admirably slipping seamlessly back into fasting).
I closed the kitchen on 420. Plus another thousand ☹️☹️☹️☹️.
Will be trying again today with a target of 650.

OohMrDarcy · 28/08/2019 08:22

Dont worry onko, remember we dont fail here so your FD just got postponed!

Got my meals planned again for the next couple of weeks, always means we eat far better with higher nutrition levels! Interestingly this is also the longest I've kept up meal planning, and I think that is because I'm being realistic... use the slow cooker on days I know I'll be knackered and actively looking for ways to add extra goodness at every opportunity. The kids are enjoying it too, even more so as the treats are more special when they dont happen so often.

Filly, your veggies look great, I'd be interested in that recipe!

Bigchoc- sounds like you have a good plan for your retirement. My fingers are crossed that the perfect flat pops up soon for you!