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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
onko · 22/08/2019 07:30

Haha peachy, I don’t have any fat pics of me (obv that’s not because I’m not fat!)
Thanks BCF aiming lower is a good plan. I am going for a ‘realistic’ 700 today.

OohMrDarcy · 22/08/2019 07:37

Good morning all,

I'm back from my holidays with a 4.8lb gain to confess. At least a bit of that must be last nights knackered pizza delivery!

Whilst away I stuck to the rules I've been following. Only had breakfast twice, so generally 16:8 still, no more than 2 units of alcohol in a day... at least 5 of the days were 0 or 1, and only had dessert twice! I was also pretty active due to more self confidence so was playing in the pool with the kids every day and we went to one of those inflatable courses where I spent I think 2 hrs climbing around / throwing myself off things ... was great fun! Grin

Anyway back to it today and fasting straight away as promised!

Grooviegazelloo · 22/08/2019 09:08

Big Choc , thanks a lot for all the help with weight training. I'm looking forward to integrating weights into my exercising now.

And also Big Choc and 43, thankyou so much for your understanding and kind words about me getting used to the idea of being slimmer.
I realised that the clothes I'd feel more secure in right now would be baggy ones which cover me up until I'm ready to show more of myself off !! Don't quite know what to do with that one !! Especially as it's still summer and hot where I am. Any how, it did me good to realise what clothes I would feel more secure in right now and I'm going to allow myself to wear them when I want to.

Also, the idea of looking at myself in the mirror to get used to the changes is a fantastic one. I suddenly realised that I hardly ever do look at myself in the mirror. Even the idea of it brings up negative voices about how it's not good to do that. In case I get vain ! Wow ! I'm a million miles away from people who've grown up posting their own pouting lip photos on FB and Instagram. Grin

So, thankyou once again for your help. And I very much appreciate your invitation to keep posting here about self esteem 43. I shall do that. Smile

I'm planning to go swimming in a nearby freshwater lake this morning and I might find something baggy to cover up in after. - It's my body and I can if I want to ! Grin

OohMrDarcy · 22/08/2019 09:23

Hey Groovie

I kind of know the feeling about the getting used to new shape. Bought a summer dress a while ago and felt really good in it - but had a sneaking suspicion I looked crap still....am really pleased after my holiday to see a photo of me in it and I look good! I mean, its a 16 so I'm still not slim - but I look massively slimmer than before! I'm just going with what I feel comfortable with - don't push yourself before you are ready

BigChocFrenzy · 22/08/2019 10:57

"It's my body and I can if I want to !"

Super motto, Groovie

That's an important NSV, MrD, being confident now that you look good in your fav clothes
(I'm sure you did before too, but now you know it as well)

Don't worry, that holiday weight will be mostly undigested food, plus retained water from excess carbs
A couple of good FDs and poops will soon get rid of that

Good luck on your FD, MrD, onko, iceni

Iceni Weight varies naturally, even when not on a diet
Unless you've been indulging a lot with treats, takeaways, booze etc, then 2lb is within normal variation
Or if you've changed your diet - some people go vegetarian for health / weight, but then pile on the cheese ..... !

With totm approaching, many women can retain several lb of water sometimes

Don't get discouraged, or give in to the totm munchies, then the FD after the end of totm should release that water,
plus maybe some burned fat too, so you'll be lighter again

Let's review after that final FD and see if your WOE need tweaking

btw, if you've been eating the same as your OH , you may gain while he loses, because his TDEE could be even twice yours

Oh and congratulations to him for his SV Smile

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 22/08/2019 11:16

Thanks BigChoc - not worried about the holiday gain -its less than I've gained before so definitely making better choices, plus its a holiday so I do choose to relax the rules sometimes, and that is ok - the main thing for me is that I've not let go completely and gained 10lb + (has happened before Blush ) and more importantly, I'm back fasting today I've not let it shove me off course! 500ml down on the water, and I did my meal in the slow cooker before I went away so that is defrosting on the side Halo I actually feel like this holiday has been a massive win and has shown me once again that I am finding the old me again!

OohMrDarcy · 22/08/2019 11:17

oh - PS, ' It's my body and I can if I want to' HAS to be the next thread title!

onko · 22/08/2019 11:40

Yay, go you Mr D. Your resolve is really impressive.
Getting going again after a break/lapse/ moment of madness is what I have always struggled with.

OohMrDarcy · 22/08/2019 11:56

Me too before now Onko - I just feel like my head is in the right place now, it doesn't feel like as much of a challenge as it did before....

Plus (Because I'm excitable) here is said picture in dress...

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 22/08/2019 12:57

Hi Everyone and welcome back from your hols mrd its sounds like you had a great time and you've been so restrained - that gain will soon be off. That photo is awesome and you look great in that dress

ooh enjoy the swim groovie

iceni I would bet its imminent TOTM, I sometimes don't bother weighing because I know it'll how a gain, just weigh again after it...

FD going well today, latte this morning, and just finished turkey salad and sugar free jelly. Not sure yet re: dinner, probably soup (again) because I can't be bothered thinking what else Grin aiming for between 600-700cals again, so enough for another coffee if I need one.

Got a super busy bank holiday ahead and will try and be mindful, if not of booze then definitely mindful of the food

OohMrDarcy · 22/08/2019 13:29

Hey 43,

Loving that I'm back and we are in sync again automatically Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 22/08/2019 14:58

You're looking good and happy, MrD Smile
That's a win

That's a sensible plan, 43

OP posts:
Peachypips78 · 22/08/2019 18:13

Also taking on new motto! IT'S MY BODY AND I CAN IF I WANT TOOOO! Gonna wear a bikini on holiday now with pride Grin. Darcy- you look gorgeous. Great legs!

NFD today. Just had a coffee ice cream. Don't think I've ever tasted anything better! Fasting makes food taste even better.

Echobelly · 22/08/2019 18:18

Well, been doing 5:2 for 12 weeks and finally weighed myself, as today's my last day before I leave it until... next time I need it.

Starting weight - 9 and 1/4 stone
Weight today - Just over 8 and half stone Smile

Chuffed with that. I thought maybe I'd managed half a stone off and if it was less then I hadn't been doing it right at all. Some clothes were definitely fitting better, but I wasn't sure how much change in my weight as I'm not great at judging these things.

Giving it a rest now as we go on holiday next week (where I'll put it all back on, LOL) - wasn't actually losing weight for the holiday, it was just the end point as I realised it was pretty much exactly 12 weeks after I started.

But will definitely come back to 5:2 again when I need to.

IceniSky · 22/08/2019 18:45

Managed a 5k run this morning and 24 hours without eating. Thought I'd give eating one meal ago, so had it this evening. Veggie sausages, poached eggs, baked mushrooms and tomatoes, beans and slice of bread. Just a few sprays of oil.

Think I prefer not to have to worry about eating during the day.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/08/2019 20:35

Congratulations on your SV, echo
A good rate of loss when you were probably already well into healthy BMI

Enjoy your holiday

iceni OMAD works well on FDs, since the meal is only 500-800 cals, i.e. an ordinary enough size
However, I advise against it as a longterm daily WOE, for NFDs
It's fine as an occasional NFD, when you cba with more meals

Women tend to lose ok on ordinary daily OMAD for the first 2-3 weeks, then crash out
and find they've developed the desire for huge meals, but are no longer on just 1 meal per day.
They often end up heavier than they started

OMAD started with big young male weightlifters, with a TDEE of 3-4000 calories, because it gives rapid loss with one satisfying 2,000 cal meal.
Very different to women

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 22/08/2019 21:49

Evening all,

Kitchen closed on 526 earlier, forgot to come back and post. Have have 2 litres water plus 2 cups of tea as well as my FD meal mid afternoon.

Was a very easy first FD back!

Echo that is a fab SV, well done! Enjoy your hols

Iceni I tend to do OMAD on FDs only, works well for me.

onko · 22/08/2019 23:42

Kitchen closed on about 680. Small whoop, big progress. Well done Mr D and the other fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/08/2019 00:02

You nailed it, onko !

Well done on your FD, MrD
Efficient as usual

OP posts:
IceniSky · 23/08/2019 06:53

Yep I was aimming on FD only. Worked very well !

OohMrDarcy · 23/08/2019 07:04

Well done onko and iceni

Glad the OMAD option on FD works for you too iceni

Scales this morning showing a 2.8lb loss so only another 2lb to go until the holiday loss is gone which should be next week, happy bunny here

tuttifritti · 23/08/2019 09:37

Lovely photo Darcy! Looks like a lovely holiday.

Sounds like everyone is doing great. I'm fasting today then this weekend is a wedding then a bbq so will need to try to be a bit sensible. Another fast day Monday and then four days on holiday.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/08/2019 11:51

That's a good system, iceni
OMAD on FDs is fine

Well done on your SV, MrD
That holiday blip will soon be gone

Good luck, tutti and any other Friday fasters

Are you fasting, hummus ?

OP posts:
bwydda · 23/08/2019 12:00

Can I join? I'm very overweight, 1 mainly want to improve my health and gain some control. First fast day on Monday, and I'm going to properly log this weekend to gain an idea of what I'm actually consuming.

Echobelly · 23/08/2019 12:37

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy - I didn't need to lose weight per se, as you said, I'm within BMI, but I've definitely been putting it on more easily in the last 3 years (I'm in my early 40s) and I just wanted to see if there was a way I could manageably lose weight if I needed to. I have an issue with one of my hips that's OK at the moment, but the less weight I am carrying around the longer I can hold off arthritis in it.

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