5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Evening all!

Good FD here. Am hungry but it isn't unmanageable. Have had milk in tea, an apple, a two egg omelette with roasted med veg.

Had tuna salad for lunch with teaspoon of hummus and chickpea curry with spoonful of brown rice and lettuce for dinner.

We batch cooked another chickpea curry and also a red lentil dhal. Have 12 portions in the freezer ready to pull out.

We discovered the Ethiopean spice Berre, which tastes amazing with pulses.

Not much water today unfortunately. Due on too so bloated.

Looking at my old weight measurements it looks like previously I could drop weight very quickly but even fasting it is taking longer! I can also see how I've slowly gained a stone since 2016. The weight gain, gained speed in the last 6 months.

Sorry posted too soon! Hope Monday fasters are all ok - its nearly over!

Well done, peachy

Sounds delic and v healthy iceni

The reason you are finding that the rate of weight gain has increased over recent years is probably due to a mix of factors:

• TDEE reduces with age, even if you don't reduce activity levels - and most folk do

• Increased insulin resistance - this tends to happens both with age and with the total number of years in your lfe that you have been overweight

• You may have v gradually - and without realising - increased portion size and / or the number & size of snacks, treats, takeaways etc
  All due to ever-increasing commercal pressure & availability

• Peri-meno or meno is an additional factor for women, if you are of that age

• Possibly the onset of conditions like thyroid

• Possibly side effects of meds, if you have been prescribed any

What this means:

It happens to most of us at some age

Recommendations:

Work on forming new habits, because you can no longer eat & drink as you did in younger days, if you want to control weight

Try to exercise regularly, if you don't do so already.

• In particular include HIIT sessions and weight lifting

Try to keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

• NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
• NEVER snack / graze between meals,
• have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
• lots of water & veg
• cut down on fizzy drinks, even diet ones (sparkling UNflavoured water is fine)

Another possible factor is that by the 2nd or 3rd time round on a any particular diet, you will have learned you can get away with bending some of the rules without much cost.

For psychological reasons,
at this stage, many people increase the amount / frequency of bending,
because of frustration at having to diet yet again and because they got away with rule-bending before

Hi all still can’t workout with my back apart from gentle stretches so I’m concentrating on food unfortunately not in a good way

Need a good fast day today
I’m going to have a nice big healthy warm chicken salad later, something to look forward to
I’ve found my meal on a fast day has to be enjoyable or I’ll continue to eat after.

Haven’t caught up on the thread sorry but hope your all doing well
Anyone joining me fasting today?

I'm fasting today Sydney! Fortunately the sun is out and we are off for a nice walk in a country park.

Your big warm chicken salad sounds good. What is in it and how many calories is it?

well done peach
iceni i'll google that spice.... are you peri-menopause? or menopausal? as weight loss will be slower but stick with it and it will come off

Me too sydney and tutti, nothing but coffee so far, have a subway salad and sugar free jelly for lunch then possibly soup and some chicken for dinner

Good luck Stanley, 43, tutti

Doesn't your doc have any suggestions to help your back, Stanley ?
If they've run out of ideas, that's pants

It's natural to turn to food for comfort, but try some non-food treats instead:
new lippy, book, music, film etc

Can you get outside and go for short walks, or is that painful too ?

Been at this lark since start of June - I'm considering my next day (Thurs) to be my last for now, so will do The Weigh In and see if I've actually lost anything or done this all wrong. Things definitely feel looser on me, so I think there's been some impact - I wasn't aiming to lose loads, so if it's half a stone I'll be happy. Any less and I suspect I've been way out on my count.

Last week was hard as I'd only really done half a day the week before due to a trip to Cornwall, but today's been easy (yoghurt & fruit breakfast, chopped veg for lunch, coriander fish for dinner), so Thursday shouldn't be difficult.

Good luck with the weigh in echo does that mean you will be on maintenance then?

Fd finished here on 650ish.... I'm not stressing trying to get to 500 yet, I'm working up to it. How have the other tues fasters gotten on? Xx

Well done, 43 That's fine

Well done on your loose clothes NSV, echo
That's lost inches & bodyfat

Good luck for tomorrow

Well done Echo. And well done 43.
I finished up at 618 today which is higher than usual. I discovered a delicious jerk chicken soup from Sainsbury's which I had for lunch.

Good luck all those fasting tomorrow.

Well done, tutti That's fine

Haven’t been to the docs bigchoc not sure what they can do but prescribe pain killers
It’s getting there slowly now with Chiro and ice, I’ve started a little light floor exercise as walking gets painful.
So fingers crossed I’m on the mend, and I’m using long yoga stretches and bubble baths as my treat now thanks for the reminder.
Will be mindful to strengthen core and back going forward before launching back into Hiit workouts.
I enjoyed My salad yesterday tutti
Always a favourite of warm chicken breast, bacon, avocado, egg, and spinach or lettuce
Usually comes in at 490-510 depending on size of chicken etc
Always make 2 because of the half avo in each.
So I may fast today too.
echo well done I’m hoping to be at maintenance for summer (in Dec)

sydney when I injured my ankle, the doc here (Germany) advised in detail which exercises to do and prescribed 8 sessions of lymph drainage massage

Anyway, it's encouraging your back is improving, even slowly

Well done on your FD, sounds a really delic & healthy favourite
and good luck today

I'm fasting too.
Anyone else ?

Off to the gym now - for fascia, back flexibility and abs

Hello All,
I've been away for a few weeks and though I expected to be able to keep in touch with you all during that time, I had to change my expectations and keep in touch with myself instead.
I had a few light eating days but mostly carried on taking care of myself and getting out to run, walk or swim which I really enjoyed because I could get away "from it all".
Back this week and I've been prioritising getting the house sorted. ( slow work). Yesterday went out for a long run which I really enjoyed and finally decided to weigh myself today. Fearful of the "damage", imagine my delight when I saw that I've stayed the same. I'm so happy.
So, now I'm aiming to say goodbye to the next set of 5 kilos. And I'm starting by joining you on a FD today Big Choc.
This next part of my weight loss journey is likely to be very emotional. I'm beginning to look more attractive and I feel really uncomfortable with that as I'm quite shy and not comfortable with being "looked at".
So, I hope you'll be there to help me as I move down this next stage.

Sydney, don't know if this helps but I twisted my ankle in Spring and it took ages for the pain to go. I stopped running during that time and did a bit of walking which I gradually upped. Then, over the months I began running a bit and, in turn, increased that gradually too. Now I can run for quite a bit.
Also, in the past I had knee problems and I approached that in a similar way. Eased off the intense exercising and did more gentle stuff during the crisis. Then, upped the exercise, building in rest days , and if the pain didn't come back I just kept upping the exercise till I was back to normal. My doctor okayed my approach and really encouraged me to keep moving.

About the weights Big Choc, I don't have much here and I don't want to join a gym. Do you have any tips before I start out on that front?

Welcome back, groovie and well done on sts during your break
Good luck on your FD and for the next 5kg mini-target

Try to relax and enjoy the new bod; it's still you
Maybe look in the mirror daily, to get used to the changes ?
and contemplate if a few new clothes would make you more secure

Lifting Weights

I suggest starting with 15 minutes on 3 days per week, then gradually build up

You can start strength training without equipment, with these bodyweight exercises:

• deep squats s(back straight, point bum rearwards, weight on your heels)
• lunges - back straight, only as low as you can go without knee discomfort
• tricep dips on a step or bench - straight legs are more effective
• pressups - back straight, keep bum down
• plank - back straight, keep bum down
• side plank with hip raises

Some days do exercises with weights (or tins /plastic bottles of water):

Standing
front (deltoid) raise, side raise, bentover side raise, bentover row, triceps, biceps & reverse biceps.

On a bench

bench press wide, bench press narrow, tricep press, pullover

Thanks bcf
And today and so far so good, had skinny latte on way to the office then chicken salad followed by apple and a yogurt, think its homemade turkey burgers and salad for dinner.

Ooh that sounds right up my street tutti was it in a tin or fresh soup?

I know I could Google it but what on earth is fascia bcf?

Welcome back groovie and well done on your sts aww I think I know where you come from with the uncomfortableness with being looked at (not now I must add but when I was younger!) You just keep posting here and working on your self esteem, I'm sure lots of us have and are battling with similar issues.

How are the weds fasters getting on?

Hi all

Checking in for a moan / moral support / kick up the arse.

I managed 6 weeks of eating to plan with good results (id guess about 8-10lb loss), caught a virus, relaxed, and now can’t get back into it.

Since I’ve better I had two failed FDs with the same pattern: no breakfast, light lunch then everything went wrong after bedtime. All other days have been on or slightly above TDEE (with one blow out day). The only thing that’s keeping me vaguely on the path is exercise - I’ve been Shredding and have managed to do one every morning for the last 10 days (plus I do a mile swim every weekend). I feel massively better for the exercise and I’m getting a bit less wobbly but it’s obviously not giving me any other results without a calorie deficit.

I am struggling with hunger. I could blame it on the exercise but I know I have been able to do calorie restriction and exercise before very effectively. It’s really just insufficient motivation and discipline - in short I am out of the zone. But I don’t just want to do this to lose weight; I have to sort my eating out long term and I know 5:2 is how I want to do it so I JUST have to start doing it.

Can anyone offer any sage words, advice on what worked for them etc to help get back on the fasting path?

Sounds good, 43

A: "Fascia" is the connective tissue surrounding muscles, bones, and joints

Fascia training (done with balls or rollers) removes the sticky adhesions that form between fascial surfaces
The training improves joint range of motion, also the functioning of musces & ligaments and may reduce stress & tension

onko I gather your problem with FDs is that you continue eating late and go over a lot ?

My suggestions:

• Ease in for a couple of weeks at least, with 800 calories instead of 500

• Have 2 or 3 small meals
  Once you are back in the swing, you can resume your old system, but try this to start

• The NFD before, plan your entire FD menu and roughly the times you are going to have each meal

• The NFD before, keep to no more than 1 glass wine and avoid sweet treats or juice after about 4 pm-
  Have a reasonable early night
  This all gives you the best chance on th FD - avoids starting the FD knackeredm with a hangover, or high insulin levels

• On the FD, stick to the plan; no nibbles or tastes of anything else

• If you are offered biscuits or muffins at work , remember
  "Communal food has poo crumbs & snot smears !" 💩 😂

• As soon as you have finished your last FD meal, drink water and clean your teeth. Rinse with mouthwash afterwards
  This reduces the temptation to eat again

Hi all. FD no 2 of the week in progress here and about to go to bed so winning! For dinner I had a whole meal bagel with two poached eggs, which was delicious and for the first time I'm not hungry at bed time.

Onko- the thing that has got me back on the wagon is saving a fat pic of myself on the screen saver of my phone!

Well done on your FD, peachy

Well done on FDs yesterday.

Mine today. My third week and 6th FD in total. My husband has lost nearly a stone. I had lost 4.5 pounds. But now they are going back on over last few days and I'm back at only 2.2 pounds. Please tell me this is because AF is about to make an appearance. Bit depressing!