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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
BigChocFrenzy · 15/08/2019 09:22

Sounds like 2 reasonably sensible NFDs, 43
You are doing well

Good luck, nana
For those with several stone, surgery is an option if you just can't face years of slow dieting
It can work longterm for those who take it as a 2nd chance and form new healthy habits for life

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 15/08/2019 15:36

Checking in for a Thursday FD. Was going well up until the point where I knocked miso soup all over my desk and the carpet...

Hope the other Thursday fasters are getting on better!!

Looking forward to a courgette, feta and mint frittata a bit later (and if anyone has novel suggestions for things to do with courgettes, please let me know. DH is growing 8 plants this year Shock)

tuttifritti · 15/08/2019 17:28

Aber, that did make me last. Sounds like a tasty dinner. Do you slice your courgettes lengthways and chargrill them?

Have you make courgette parmigiana?

tuttifritti · 15/08/2019 17:28

Laugh not last

IceniSky · 15/08/2019 17:58

We make courgetti alot. Barely cook it, nix with pesto and stick a salmon fillet on top.

aberjenagain · 15/08/2019 18:01

tutti this time I just chopped them into chunks, fried them off, then added the eggs and feta when the courgettes were nice and brown. But I’ve chargrilled them for other things. Courgette parmigiana is a good shout, thank you! I’m assuming it’s basically aubergine parmigiana, but swapping the aubergines for courgettes?

aberjenagain · 15/08/2019 18:05

Ooh, that sounds good too, thanks Iceni

BigChocFrenzy · 15/08/2019 18:58

That sounds delicious, aber
How is your FD going now - hopefully the carpet hasn't shared meals again Grin

OP posts:
tuttifritti · 15/08/2019 20:59

That's right aber. Basically the same

aberjenagain · 15/08/2019 21:20

Thanks tutti

BCF I am pleased to report the rest of the FD was incident free Grin and the frittata was lovely. We have chickens and their eggs are amazing.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/08/2019 07:25

Well done, aber Grin
Eggs from your own chickens is living the dream !

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/08/2019 08:10

well done on your fd aber
mmmm, love courgettes :) recipe I like is slice length ways and scoop insides out, fry some shallots, garlic and the scooped out courgette, mix with a little red pesto, refill the courgette and sprinkle with a little parmesan cheese, then bake or grill until cooked - really delicious.

FD for me today, my first Friday FD in a LOOONNNGGGG time - so I know its going to be tough and I've already had a talk with myself about having a nice glass of wine tomorrow Grin anyone else fasting with me today??

tuttifritti · 16/08/2019 11:52

I'm fasting with you 43.

I've had two cups of tea so far and shortly going to meet friends for lunch and the cinema. I think I'll have a soup for lunch and maybe a Diet Coke.

Best of luck to all the fasters today.

EssentialHummus · 16/08/2019 13:20

Me too tutti and 43. Planning giant salads for lunch and dinner. The weather is quite terrible here (London), hope others have it better!

tuttifritti · 16/08/2019 16:47

Hi Essential, yes the weather here (Home Counties) is awful too. Definitely struggling more with the FD than on a nice warm, sunny day.

I have just polished off a hummus pita with grated carrot and closed the kitchen on 475 cals. I've not felt the need to do a teaspoon of marmite since I started this WOE but might need to later.

Maybe a bath and an early night will do the trick.

How are you getting on 43?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/08/2019 16:57

Well done tutti a bath sounds like a good idea...

How were your salads hummus?

I will admit today is hard going and I've had more than a few chats with myself, it doesn't help that its cold and wet here too (north west) I just want a big bowl of pasta and some lovely red wine 😞 and veg out in front of the telly. Instead ds starts a beginners archery course tonight so that's 2 hours stood out in the sodding wind and rain for me. Cant decide whether to have my meagre bowl of soup before I go or when I get back? Pity party over here Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 16/08/2019 17:08

Well done on your Friday FD, tutti

An early night is always a good idea on an FD, to maximise fasting benefits and also reduce the win dow for temptation

Not long to go, 43, hummus

hummus I enjoy salads even in winter, but I am weird !
Maybe add a cup of hot Bovril ?

After several cooler (22 C) rainy days, today was glorious sunshine again
So I enjoyed a long leisurely Rhine walk after morning training

43 That archery sounds boring as hell !
That's a real labour of love from you
I hope you stay dry & warm in your outdoor gear

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/08/2019 17:56

I know right, the things we do for others!
Ooh I'm very jealous of your sunshine bigchoc

tuttifritti · 16/08/2019 18:19

I really don't envy you the two hours out in this weather. Just think how proud you will be when you've done it!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/08/2019 20:05

Change of plan, dh has taken him and I've cleaned the bathroom and hoovered upstairs Grin I much prefer cleaning to standing around in the rain!!

Going to have an early night. I have gone over at about 690 cals but bloody hell I'm taking that!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/08/2019 20:27

That's a win, 43
You've nailed a Friday FD

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 16/08/2019 20:54

Good deal 43 Grin. Well done tutti.

All ok here - tuna salads and coffee all round. I might get some Bovril in bigchoc, or even miso type soup for weather like this. I'm now facing off against my last kilogram (having reached 70 and realising I want to be a bit slimmer still - 67kg or so) so the weight is coming off veeery slowly/zigzagging but broadly ok. May do a b2b tomorrow.

tuttifritti · 17/08/2019 06:20

So I was all excited to weigh myself this morning to see the results of my efforts and I am up 2oz! 🤦‍♀️

Nevermind, onwards and upwards.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/08/2019 08:16

Well done, hummus
That last kg will come off in time

It's excellent practice to review weight and fitness goals quite often
I'll be doing that in January after I retire fully

tutti Most folk monitor weight weekly on the NFD after FD2 and it is more reliable to look at the trend from this over 2-3 weeks
It's ok to weigh daily, but don't try to puzzle out the blips

Check if your clothes feel looser, as the scales can sometimes lag behind

Weight vares naturally from day to day, even when not dieting, because of undigested food, retained water, hormonal swings etc
Sometimes the weight loss appears after the following NFD

One major cause of blips is that many people don't weigh under exactly the same conditions

How to Weigh Consistently
. Reliable scales, referably digital.
. Change batteries frequently, so always full power.
. Scales should be on a level hard surface, not carpet
. Keep scales in exactly the same place every day. Type of flooring, slight slopes etc all affect things.
. First thing in the morning, naked, after loo but before first drink of water.
. After switching on, wait 3 secs before stepping on, because the scales need to calibrate.
. Don't jump on; step slowly on so that both feet are fully on
. Don't lean to one side or to the front /back.
. Keep still until you take the reading, no fidgeting or leaning

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 17/08/2019 08:59

Morning everyone,

tutti is totm imminent? Frustrating but such a small blip I'm sure that and more will be off soon.

So first week back at it and I have lost either 5 or 3 lbs? So I usually weigh in stones and pounds but scale was set to lbs so as mfp is also set to pound I went with that and I'm 5lb lighter, fab Grin so then switched it back to stones to check but now I'm confused as last weigh in was 12 st 8lbs, this morning's weigh in was 12 st 5lbs, so only 3lbs loss? Can anyone explain to my thick head why theres a difference? Either way it's a loss but I need to get my head around how it can be different!!

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