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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
IceniSky · 12/08/2019 12:49

FD today. Feel a bit hungover however. I had 4 pints last night. Not normally a Sunday night / weekday drinker. Feeling a bit fed up with fasting and only on my 3rd week! Have lost 4.4lbs however. And my BMI back to a healthy range. Have about 6-7lbs more to go.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/08/2019 13:05

Thanks BCF and MrD so far so good, had a skinny vanilla latte and chicken salad so far today, probably an omelette and side salad or soup with extra chicken in for dinner.

Enjoy your holiday mrd Smile
Good luck fellow monday fasters Smile

aberjenagain · 12/08/2019 13:31

Another one checking in for a Monday FD. We had people over for a bbq yesterday. I overindulged, but I preemptively had a sensible Saturday, and small breakfast on Sunday, so not beating myself up over it, and quite enjoying today’s FD!

Miso soup and some prawns for lunch, and halloumi and Mediterranean veg traybake for tea.

Good luck to the other Monday fasters, and welcome back 43 Smile

OohMrDarcy · 12/08/2019 13:33

My meal for the day is done and I'm on 505

Will have a couple of cups of tea along side my water to get me through the evening, I find FDs easier with OMAD and more often than not at lunchtime.... it stops the evening munchies if food isn't an option!

Glad to see its going well 43, keep glugging the water and you'll be fine.

Ice - for info its not recommended to drink at all the day before fasting, as your body won't burn fat whilst it is processing the alcohol I believe, sorry! Well done on the SV so far though - fab progress already.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/08/2019 14:22

Good luck, iceni, aberjen
Sounds a good plan, 43

Well done on nailing your FD, MrD

iceni re alcohol:
The recommendation for all NFDs is to keep within NHS alcohol limits, which is about 1 daily glass of wine
This is to form permanent habits for health & weight control, even after reaching goal

The 1 glass limit is even more important on the NFD before an FD - and try to have that glass with lunch, so that you start the FD after an overnight fast.

After an evening drinking, your liver will prioritise processing the toxic byproducts, which stops fat-burning for several hours, i.e. you don't have an overnight fast

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 12/08/2019 16:22

OH! Forgot what is a massive NSV for me!
Yesterday I was trying on BIKINIS! I literally can't remember the last time I wore a bikini... certainly before my eldest was born and she is 12.5 ... and the best bit - I really liked it, and if they had the one I loved in actual bra sizes on top I would have bought it! unfortunately the cups were 2/3 sizes too small - but the high waisted bottoms looked fab.

Will be another thing to look forward to when I get to goal as won't mind paying more for a well fitting one then Grin

WellHurrahAndHuzzah · 12/08/2019 17:13

Hello! I did 5:2 a few years ago and was really successful, I'm now back on the wagon!

This is my first FD this time round. I have around 9 lbs to lose.

Today I've had a nicoise salad, boiled egg, 1 X tea with milk, and am having a salmon fillet and lots of steamed green veg for tea.
Feeling surprisingly ok, not sure how long this will last! Good luck everyone.

OohMrDarcy · 12/08/2019 18:14

Welcome Hurrah, sounds like a good FD meal plan

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/08/2019 18:47

Fab nsv mrd Smile

Told myself I would have 800cals this week to ease myself back in to fasting but I'm done now on 681 so happy with that. The 3 nfds between now and my next fd will be the test!!

Welcome hurrah

EssentialHummus · 12/08/2019 19:24

Welcome hurrah.

Quite difficult day today. Same as last week really - non-sleeping toddler, decorators in, work to do. No idea of calories - lots of coffees with small amounts of milk, a tin of baked beans at 330 cals (not great, but the best of a few bad options), rice cakes with hummus for dinner.

How did others get on?

Have a good holiday mrD!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/08/2019 21:46

That sounds like you've done pretty well all considered hummus

Off to bed after watching masterchef Australia, why do I do this on a fd Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 12/08/2019 22:50

Welcome, hurrah 🙂
That's a good, healthy menu
I hope your 1st FD went well

Woohoo, MrD !
A bikini NSV to give extra confidence for your holiday
Maybe you can find a bikini you like in the shops there ?

That's a good 1st FD back, 43
Now you are back in the fasting swing and you can feel confident for the next one

hummus You did really well to nail a tricky FD
You're clearly a dab hand at this fasting WOE

OP posts:
SoSydney · 13/08/2019 01:12

Hi all so behind on the thread sorry.
Still struggling with my back even after 4x massage and 2xChiro Sad
Not moving much at all let alone doing my workouts
Tried yoga and stretching but I’m so locked up it’s not helped.
Finding it so difficult without exercising which was what I did so I could eat as well as keep me from rusting and keeping mentally strong!

Sorry... pity party over
guess it means I can concentrate on fasting and studying
So hitting one today. Planning a chicken salad for dinner lots of green tea And my beloved cappuccino later so I need to count the milk

As our summer is your winter I still have time to get myself in shape for my bikini.
Well done MrD you must feel amazing!

Hummus your my hero I need to nail FD like that

Good luck to everyone fasting today

OohMrDarcy · 13/08/2019 06:55

Morning all!

Just to clarify, I am a size 16 still so a long way to go before I look amazing in a bikini, but I felt confident and no worse than I do in a swimming costume tbh!

Weighed this morning after yesterdays fast and I can go on my hols happy - 14st 7.8lb which is a loss of 0.6lb since Saturday !

Sydney - cant remember what you've done to your back but I have a long history of back issues and I'd reccomend the following - regularly take medication! Ibuprofen if it is general tightness/ pulled muscle or something.. get to the gp if it might need more. Naproxen is ace, as is diazepam if it is spasming. Also lots of pottering, no major exercise but the the more you make yourself move little bits the easier a back should be. Hope it feels better soon, I swear by physios to. The have always sorted me out quickly.

Well done to all yesterdays fasters! Looks like it was a mass success.

I'm off on my hols today now back next weds. I may post once or twice if I have time, but keep on keeping on everyone!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 13/08/2019 10:54

it feels good to be back in the FD swing of things BCF

oh sydney that sounds difficult but as you say, maybe until you can ease the pain and discomfort a little you just concentrate on fasting

well done on the SV mrd and have a wonderful holiday Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 13/08/2019 11:52

I'm sorry that your back is still locked, sydney 💐
Can you go back to the doctor and ask for advice, maybe better meds

You are right that when you can't exercise as before, then you have to be more careful about your intake, especially junky treats & alcohol.

Well done on your SV, MrD
Bon Voyage and have a lovely holiday ! 🏝

Good luck on your FD, sydney and any other Tuesday fasters

OP posts:
tuttifritti · 13/08/2019 19:30

Hope your back feels better Sydney.

Have a great holiday Darcy!

Completing an FD today. Been a taxing day with the kids but stuck at it and about to go get a nice fruit tea and settle into some work in front of the tv.

I'm about 3 weeks in and down just 3 pounds. I think (know) I need to be more disciplined on my NFDs and consume less wine. I am still working with my trainer and did a crazy session on Monday which left me almost unable to walk but I am enjoying feeling stronger and looking better and in clothes.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/08/2019 22:14

Well done on your FD, tutti
and on boosting exercise

Sounds like you are working on your NFDs - your "future normal" eating for longterm weight control -
and the scales are moving in the right direction

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/08/2019 08:11

well done tutti if you haven't much to lose then 3lbs is not bad at all.....

Had a good NFD yesterday and looking for the same again today, I'm working from home which can sometimes be trickier but will keep myself very busy

Hope everyone has a good day Smile

tuttifritti · 14/08/2019 08:57

Thanks Big Choc and 43.

I stepped on the scales today and have lost another pound so the scales showed 11St 2lb 8ozfor the first time since starting this fitness regime so that feels definitely closer to 11st rather than 11 and a half.

Best of luck with the NFD today 43. I was supposed to meet a friend after work but she has cancelled so I can expect a healthier NFD now. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 14/08/2019 14:04

Well done on your SV, tuttie
We all lose at our own pace

"It's a WOL, not a ace"

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/08/2019 16:04

eek, ipad
"It's a WOL, not a Race"

OP posts:
Nanamilly · 15/08/2019 08:10

I previously posted on this thread with a different username and after losing quite a good bit of weight I woke up one morning and decided I was just way too jaded to carry on trying to lose weight under my own steam. I'd been at it for 15 years and I was exhausted by it all. The weight I did lose helped me to realise I could be dead before I lost the weight I still had to lose so 2 weeks after my realisations I had weight loss surgery. Its the best thing Ive ever done even though its by no means the easiest. I had a mini gastric bypass and within a week of the surgery I was able to stop taking my medication for pre diabetes.

I eat about 1300 calories per day and Ive lost 12kgs in 12 weeks. I feel like a new woman but the best thing about it all is having space in my head for life and thoughts that aren't dominated by food.

Side effect wise? I haven't had any.

Im happy and whilst I still have to work at losing weight, surgery is only a tool, its a positive experience whereas in the past it was anything but and I was miserable most of the time.

regards
Nanamilly

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 15/08/2019 08:29

well done on your SV tutti
nana good luck with your weightloss, are you going to carrying on fasting as part of your new WOL??

NFD was good yesterday although I did have 2 glasses of wine with dinner, but all within TDEE. NFD today and planning on just a latte until lunch (meeting a friend so no clue what's on offer) then will decide what to have for dinner based on what I decide to eat for lunch..... FD planned for tomorrow

Good luck to any thurs fasters Smile

Nanamilly · 15/08/2019 08:39

nana good luck with your weightloss, are you going to carrying on fasting as part of your new WOL??

Forty. Yes. For sure. Im over the moon to be off my medication and blood sugar levels are something I'll always have to be mindful of.

Next stop is to reduce my blood pressure medication and perhaps even get off that as Im not on a high dose and Im classed as stage one hypertension. Its do-able.

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