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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
BigChocFrenzy · 05/08/2019 11:14

Morning all Smile
Good luck to all the Monday fasters

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 05/08/2019 13:16

FD here. Anyone else? I did try to post earlier but MN went truly funny this morning.

onko · 05/08/2019 14:53

No fasting for me but sadly I’ve gone a bit bonkers being home in my own (I’ve eaten my TDEE already and it’s only 3pm!!). Seems my boasts were far too soon! Still, it will either be completely fine if I manage to close the kitchen or it will be my first off-day since starting this WOE. Also what I’ve eaten hasn’t been massively junky (the worst has been 2 packs of walkers baked) - just a bit carby and nothing sugary except fruit.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/08/2019 16:44

It's just one day, onko
but close the kitchen now, if you haven't already

Drink a glass of water, then clean your teeth - that usually reduces temptation to eat again

How are you doing, hummus ?

OP posts:
Itstheprinciple · 05/08/2019 17:03

Good FD for me. I made a nice spicy carrot and lentil soup from the BBC good food site. I've had it with half a Naan bread. I've got a little fruit pot for my dessert. 512 cals all in. I'm glad I've found a recipe I think we will all be able to have as I was struggling with FD menus, we were all having different meals. I think DH will have found it more difficult today - he's taken DD to the cinema. No nachos for him!

Hope everyone else is having a good day.

IceniSky · 05/08/2019 17:56

FD going ok. Lost 2 lbs last week.

Made a batch of chickpea curry yesterday which has been frozen for fast days. 8 portions. Will make a dhal next Sunday.

Feel very bloated today.

Fillybuster · 05/08/2019 18:22

Intended to fast yesterday but a painful period combined with lunch guests and pizza meant my willpower crumbled. I’m a sucker for cheesy garlic bread....Blush I didn’t eat too much, made it to my gym class and stuck to plan A for my dinner, but unsurprisingly scales read 9.13 this morning.
Haven’t managed to fast today either (my friend brought in lemon drizzle cake and I forgot “I’ll have it tomorrow” ConfusedBlush) & have a very special dinner with dh this evening, so planning a back to back on Tuesday & Wednesday before we head off for summer hols on Thursday!
Sadly I doubt I’ll hit 9.9 before we leave (although that was always a stretch from 10.5) but hopefully will avoid doing too much damage whilst I’m away (will be quite active & we are self catering half the time) so with any luck will be able to continue when we get back.
I know I’ve managed quite successfully to fast on holiday in previous years so am going to try and fit a few in, even if it’s just 6:1 or MFDs

IceniSky · 05/08/2019 19:03

Wanted to ask. My next FD can only be Wed this week but I have a martial arts class that afternoon. Will this be a bad idea? I still want to go, and will try and hold off lunch until 2 hours before.

EssentialHummus · 05/08/2019 19:26

Well done its and ice, good luck with the b2b filly - I’m the same, if someone turns up with a treat and I’m not mentally prepared to say “No thanks, fasting”/it’s someone I know less well, it derails me.

All ok here. Enormous tuna salad for lunch, dinner was two rice cakes with hummus and some broccoli and tomatoes mixed with curry powder, cooked in very little oil until charred. Sounds odd but wonderful strong flavours that I like. Last night we went for a very smart dinner in central London, at a fish restaurant so fortunately most of the options were reasonably healthy. Then two glasses of champagne and a dessert (it was a birthday celebration after all!). It’s really not something we do often so was a lovely treat.

onko · 05/08/2019 19:33

hmmm...prom dress.....fish on the menu....
Did you go to Sexyfish Hummus?

EssentialHummus · 05/08/2019 19:43

Grin No! I had to look them up. We went to J Sheekey's. Quite a good job I wore a slightly less revealing outfit there!

onko · 05/08/2019 21:44

Ah I love Sheekeys Envy

Hope you had a fab meal/night. SF is the latest hotspot (now chiltern firehouse is old hat) so I am very keen to find out what it’s like (other than hideously expensive!)

BigChocFrenzy · 05/08/2019 21:44

Well done on your FD, principle, hummus, iceni

That recipe should make your FDs easier, principle
Life's too short to cook different meals for everyone !

What also works on FDs is a meal where the protein veg & carbs are in separate dishes

e.g. for a roast dinner, make at least 3 veg sides
So you have the lean meat and pile your plate with different veg, plus 1 tbsp gravy and a teasp horseradish or mint sauce, optionally 1 small roastie too
The non-fasters have smaller veg portions, but add the roast pots, yorkshires, a lot more gravy

Congratulations on your SV, iceni

Is totm a possible cause for bloating today ? If not, this FD might release the retained water
If it is totm, then it is usually the FD after the end of totm that zaps the bloat

Your martial arts class should be fine tomorrow,
because it is probably quite HIIT and hence should be able to access some stored bodyfat for fuel
What can be difficult on FDs are long steady state runs or long swims, as these use your glycogen stores for fuel, which an FD empties

Your plan sounds ok - don't do the class too soon after eating !

  • but you could also try having your main meal afterwards
If you normally have 2 FD meals, then just have say a boiled egg & a tomato for lunch

FD Exercise Tip
A double espresso or black coffee 10 minutes before the class, especially on a fairly empty tum, helps mobilise bodyfat to be used as fuel

Sounds a lovely meal yesterday, hummus
I love fish and it is usually very healthy (unless deep-fried in batter)
I'm sure you looked elegant and had the extra confidence of knowing that the prom dress would have fitted too.

Admire's onko's retro deerstalker,
but waves away gusts of black smoke from the meerschaum pipe

Enjoy your holiday, filly
As you intend to be mindful, remember the
one portion guide:
one helping of everything you fancy, including pud, but no seconds except for veg.
One glass wine is one portion !

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 06/08/2019 07:15

Morning all

Checking in for a Tuesday FD, hard to keep up with the thread with the holidays here!

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2019 07:27

Good luck, MrD and any other Tuesday fasters

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 06/08/2019 12:01

Checking in to keep you company MrD Smile

OohMrDarcy · 06/08/2019 19:33

Kitchen closed on around 530 here today.

How is yours filly?

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2019 20:34

Well done, MrD

Blimey, it's been very tough trying to post on MN the last couple of days
If anyone else has been having problems - keep having to log on again, posts being refused etc - I gather MNHQ have been tinkering again, something they don't do well

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 06/08/2019 21:31

Well done Mr D Smile

I’m a broken woman: totm, bonkers day at work with back to back meetings from v early, then did an insane abs class followed by an hour of pump. Just black coffee and water so far. And still fasting at 9.30pm! Off to defrost my butternut squash & chickpea stew with some cauliflower cous cous and a salad.

24 hours to go before we go on our family holiday.....aiming for another FD and two more gym classes tomorrow (plus work and family packing....eek...!!!) so need to make the most of my last opportunities to find some abs (they must be in there somewhere????!)

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2019 22:27

Well done, filly
Sounds an exhausting plan - never mind, you can slepp on the plane ! Grin

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 07/08/2019 09:40

Wowsa Filly - that is hardcore

I'm just planning to add an extra FD before my hols next week lol!

NFD today and my souped up (extra veg) cottage pie for dinner... do the mince in the slow cooker so bung in my usual concoction of chopped tomatoes / celery / leek / carrots / kidney beans / peas - lots of extra goodness and the kids don't notice because of the cheesy mash on top Grin

DS has a friend coming for a sleepover too and it is his favourite, am not allowed to tell his mum that he prefers my cooking!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/08/2019 10:52

That's a very healthy & delic recipe, MrD
No wonder the kid prefers your cooking.
Don't worry, these threads keep all secrets

Just sitting down in my fav restaurant, a perennial regional prize-winner, for a fav meal of salmon fillet, locally sourced salad & their own rye bread

Good luck, Wednesday fasters

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 07/08/2019 12:04

Mmmmm, now I’m torn between MrDs shepherds pie and BFCs lunch (I love salmon and rye bread...) whilst trying to wfh in the kitchen because dh has commandeered the study & I cant do video calls from a bedroom on day 2 of a b2b fast HmmConfusedHmm

Actually ok so far, and not at all tempted (yet...) by the massive stack of snack food I’ve been getting out ready for the Filly-family travels tomorrow.

Cancelled my lunchtime abs class though, as I’ve got far too much to get done today - need to take Fillydog to the dog sitter for his hols too! - but will be protecting my early evening circuit training session as that’s my last gym visit for 3 weeks

On a separate note: we have figs for the very first time from our tree, loads of tomatoes (why do they always ripen just as we go away?!) and baby courgettes. Beans well on their way but the bastard caterpillars have completely destroyed all my lovely broccoli plants. I wouldn’t mind (heck, butterflies, right?) but they are all cabbage whites...can’t bring myself to squish them tho!

OohMrDarcy · 07/08/2019 18:29

Dinner was yum, now has the b2b gone filly?

Cozyblanket · 07/08/2019 19:45

Hi, are you all doing the 5:2 diet? I’ve just started the 16:8 combined with the Fast 800 for 5 days a week. Would that work if I relax slightly at weekends? How much weight have you all lost? I need to loose at least 3st which is quite a challenge for me, I’m angry I let it get this bad!

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