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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
onko · 02/08/2019 07:30

Morning all - good luck to Friday fasters and those new to the WOE. Managed a FD yesterday at just under 600 which I’ll take.

Another day at home all day with chicken-poxed DD. I’m going to try for ZERO picking (not even celery sticks). Wish me luck 🤞

OohMrDarcy · 02/08/2019 08:16

Morning all!

Had a solid 8hrs last night then let myself dose back off for another hour to help me catch up so feeling good - and more importantly, coherent right now Grin

Fasting today and got my water on the go, fingers crossed but I suspect the sugar hits yesterday will make it a little tougher today!

EssentialHummus · 02/08/2019 08:28

Well done mrd, good luck today. Well done onko - how many days in is she, is the end in sight?

FD here, nothing especially planned food or activity wise so we’ll see how we go. Two fancy dinners this weekend for DH and a friend’s birthdays, so will aim for lighter daytime meals Saturday and Sunday.

Good luck Friday fasters!

aberjenagain · 02/08/2019 09:25

Checking in for a Friday fast. Feeling rather hangry so could be an interesting day. Think I’ll have to make it a 2-meal day, for my colleagues’ sake if nothing else Grin

On the plus side, scales are continuing to creep down nicely, even though I only had 1 fd last week, before a long weekend away. V proud of myself for not overindulging - still allowed myself occasional treats, just didn’t go overboard like I would have done previously.

Good luck to the other Friday fasters!

Fillybuster · 02/08/2019 10:24

So glad to hear you got some sleep MrD!

Amazingly the scales still read 9.10 this morning so looks like I just about got away with it yesterday. But next Fd not until Sunday, with a bbq and a couple of social events to get through, so no resting on my laurels. Anyway, 9.9 is my first target and I’m not there yet...!

NSV to share though: I’ve got a day off work & heading out with some friends wearing a skirt I bought 17 years ago, pre-DCs, when I was at my slimmest ever. Admittedly it was loose then, and is a little (ahem) snug now, but I hadn’t been sure I would ever wear it again, so “yay”! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 11:08

Well done on your FD, onko, aber
Good luck on the No Snacking

Congratulations on your SV, aber
That's excellent progress that you are learning moderation in treats, an important habit NSV for lifelong maintenance

Congratulations on your skirt NSV, filly
Stay focused for a few more weeks and that will be loose again

That's good news that you are still well under 10 stone today
You are right to be careful until the next FD, with all those social events - remember the one plate per course guidelines, no seconds except veg

Good luck, onko, MrD, Hummus and any other fasters today

Excellent that you re-stocked on sleep, MrD
That sets you up for a good FD and WE

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OohMrDarcy · 02/08/2019 17:38

Congrats on the SV Filly! Sounds like you're getting a better balance

FD Complete here on around 500 - 550 tops (am trying to learn to not rely so much on MFP but will happily go back if needed). Going to have a cup of tea in an hour or two and another early night so that I'm all caught up when the DC get home in the morning - I'm a tad excited and they are probably going to be knackered after travelling so will have to pace myself!

Onko - how has your FD gone?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/08/2019 18:13

Well done, MrD
and an early night is always good on FDs, to maximise fasting benefits

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onko · 02/08/2019 18:54

Nice one on your FD Mr D. I fasted yesterday - today was the much bigger challenge of being home-bound but not snacking. I didn’t manage it sadly - had half a satsuma and a mini-chicken fillet (both unwanted from DDs meals - only about 55 cal for both but that’s not the point). So I have spent the last hour deadheading the lobelias in my hanging baskets as punishment.

A minor victory is that I never once went in the kitchen to get something for myself. I’ve also isolated a massive problem being my loathing to waste food.

I’m estimating another 3-4 days at home Hummus - DDs first faint spots were Monday night - so that’s 2 more chances at non-picking NFDs (Monday will be a FD). Will report back on Monday....I am going to dare to do some measurements then which I am hoping will spur me on....

How were your FDs Hummus and Aberdeen?

onko · 02/08/2019 18:56

Aberjen (stoopid autocorrect)

IceniSky · 02/08/2019 19:19

Bad NFD. Almond croissant, 2 sugar free energy drinks, 6inch sub, 5 raspberry tarts at 61 cals each, wholemeal hummus wrap, banana. Two beers for this evening. May do a 3rd FD tomorrow. All of the above eaten as part of meals though, no snacking Grin.

EssentialHummus · 02/08/2019 19:34

No snacking is good ice, we've all been there on the snacks etc - tomorrow is another day.

Well done onko - I think that sounds great in the circumstances. It's a unique combination of stress and boredom when they have chicken pox, I've never been so happy to leave the house.

Well done mrD.

All ok here - enormous salad for lunch with lettuce, tomatoes, cucumber, spring onions, tuna and a boiled egg, then rice cakes with hummus for dinner, and a few coffees and sparkling waters here and there. I think I'll be aiming to make most of tmrw either a FD or very healthy, ahead of our dinner out. Though we are going to a Chinese restaurant that specialises in Sichuan food, so actually I don't think it will be a blow-out. But will probably eat plenty!

aberjenagain · 02/08/2019 20:42

That’s okay onko, I answer to most things Grin I’m with you on the wasted food, I struggle with that too, but I remember bcf saying once that we’re worth something better than leftovers (or words to that effect), which has made me stop and think if I actually want their food, or just think it should be eaten.

Decent fd in the end - a bit over at 574, but given how ravenous I was around lunchtime, I’ll take that!

OohMrDarcy · 03/08/2019 07:01

Morning all

Weighin showing a gain of 1lb today Confused so 14 st 9.4lb.

Not too worried but has definitely reminded me to stay focused

EssentialHummus · 03/08/2019 07:58

Gah mrd, sorry. You know that what you’re doing is working, so I hope you can see this blip for what it is.

Itstheprinciple · 03/08/2019 10:25

I had a FD yesterday. Was a struggle but I did it, coming in at about 540 cals. I'm also glad I've worked out my TDEE and it isn't too unrealistic. I will struggle with cutting out snacks though. I'm a real grazer. Scales are saying a 2lb loss since I started so feeling spurred on. If I can lose that every week or two, my goal isn't too out of reach. I'm on school holidays at the moment so the test will come when I go back to work as I so programmed to eat at certain times of the day. DH thinks its easier for him at work as he's so busy but he doesn't work with my colleagues!

EssentialHummus · 03/08/2019 11:10

Well done its. Sounds like you need new habits at work - maybe a short walk in the fresh air when you'd usually grab a snack, or a tea, or sparkling water?

BigChocFrenzy · 03/08/2019 17:30

Well done on your FD, onko
You are sticking to the WOE, despite being trapped in a house of plague Wink

re DC leftovers - you deserve your own food:
"There is a rubbish bin in the kitchen, which shouldn‘t be you"

That was the slogan you remembered, aber Smile

Well done on your FD too, principle and on your encouraging SV
Cutting out the snack habit will help you lose and later avoid regain
Snacks are a big reason why many people have put on weight

Try to plan out your school FD menu in advance, so you only eat according to your plan
and - as hummus suggested - plan activities to take you away from snackers

Iceni At least they were meals, no snacks, so you are making progress with changing habits
We all have junky days sometimes, so don't worry about it.

It's just a blip, MrD
Just move on and stay focused
Possibly even caused by your constipation problem

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 04/08/2019 11:35

NSV here - I am planning what to wear for our fancy dinner tonight, and tried on a dress that I bought when I was 17, to wear to my school prom. It fits! And it looks great, if I do say so myself Grin. That's nearly 20 years ago now. Not sure I can bear the Tube without underwear, though, as the dress requires, so may choose something a bit more understated. But very happy regardless.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/08/2019 12:11

Lovely NSV, Hummus wow, your school prom dress !

I agree that 20 years on, one does feel more respectable with underwear
However, it shows how you have turned back the clock

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/08/2019 12:12

Lovely NSV, Hummus wow, your school prom dress !

I agree that 20 years on, one does feel more respectable with underwear
However, it shows how you have turned back the clock

OP posts:
onko · 04/08/2019 14:48

Wow - getting info a dress you wore when 17 is amazingly impressive Hummus. Good friday fasting, Aberjen and principle.

So BCF, house of plague is exactly right - I have now caught bastard chicken pox. I Another 5 days in the house minimum 😱. Rash isn’t too bad so far but I’ve been feeling lousy - fluish (I originally misdiagnosed this as the effects of JM videos on my muscles and/or a bit of Keto flu).

Didn’t fancy eating yesterday so came in at around 900. Had overnight oats for brekkie this morning and then had a massive wobble about an hour ago when I was feeling sorry for myself and started thinking about gorging myself silly on chocolate (I’ve been practically sugar free for 6 weeks). Had to restrain myself from going to the corner shop (3doors away) and getting a big bar of Cadbury’s caramel.

But I didn’t and instead cooked a massive turkey and veg stir fry and ate it till I was stuffed (and threw the rest in the scraps bin - go me!). Feeling v smug but no-one to boast to so TF (or more precisely thanks BCF) for this thread - it is such a life saver 😀.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/08/2019 21:11

Oh no, onko I'm so sorry you now have the plague as well 💐
Did you have it as a child too ? If so, should be milder

You did really well to resist a choc frenzy, that counts as a major willpower / focus NSV
and 6 weeks sugar-free is a really big NSV too

Keep supporting your recovery with healthy food & plenty of water - don't forget to keep drinking
and vent here whenever you feel low

OP posts:
Itstheprinciple · 04/08/2019 21:43

Not had a good weekend as out with friends yesterday and started off well on the gin but ended up having wine too. And today DD had a craving for KFC so of course I had to have some too! So 2 days over TDEE and no exercise either.

FD tomorrow so will be back in the zone!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/08/2019 22:16

Never mind, principle Just move on
Good luck tomorrow

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