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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2019 08:04

Good luck, hummus
Well done on the water prepping

I'm off to the gym now

OP posts:
Ithinkyourewonderful · 24/07/2019 10:56

Hello all! I'm still here and still on holiday. Lucky me Smile

Its been several weeks now of no fast days but with BigChoc's help, I feel like I have managed to control the damage! I weighed myself this morning after over a month and if my mother-in-law's scales are correct, I have only put on around 0.8 kg! I feel like this is slightly miraculous given the every day alcohol and deserts and lashings of fruit I've been having. But I have made sure I don't snack and most days I have just had coffee for breakfast. And I've been doing lots of walking and biking every day.

Trying a fast day today as I'm feeling a bit dumpy around the middle. I'm really determined not to waste my hard work losing weight at the beginning of the year!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2019 11:16

Welcome back, wonderful
and good luck on your FD - it should help get your middle back in top shape

Well done for maintaining so well after several weeks hols

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2019 20:12

39C and remaining so for the rest of the week < drips sweat >
I'm taking the next 2 days off;
My bra won't work and my cycle commute is no fun, when air temp is above body temperature

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2019 20:14

😂😂 Greatest iPad typo
My brain won't work - which it has just demonstrated !

(my A-cups don't need a bra in this heat, when I'm not exercising)

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 24/07/2019 20:39

I'm giggling at your malfunctioning bra bigchoc Grin.

All ok here - coffee in the morning, salad for lunch with a boiled egg and the same for dinner (mainly because the weather put me off going to the shops for anything more exotic). Spent the day in the garden with DD - I was pulling weeds and she was "helping" but it was lovely and cool in the shade. A very easy FD with this heat, though DH didn't help by turning up from work with doughnuts!

OohMrDarcy · 24/07/2019 21:40

Evening all

Giggled at your bra not working bigchoc!

I had a team meeting today at site. 5hrs of driving, a sweltering tour round the site and I'm knackered after the humidity and thunderstorms last night!

Off work for the rest of the week and camping from tomorrow (first couple of days with kids then send them off to dad and stay for the weekend)... fasting tomorrow but no weigh in as will be at the site Friday morning. Will just keep going and see what next weeks weighin brings!

onko · 24/07/2019 22:24

I didn’t know bras could malfunction in hot weather BCF 😂
I’m now terrified for tomorrow (38 in London) - I may need to take a spare with me.

onko · 24/07/2019 22:26

Managed my FD ok (doing it at work is the only way I can manage it). Well done Hummus - how did you get on, wonderful?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2019 23:32

Well done, hummus, onko

That's knackering, MrD
I hope you had an early night, to start the long WE refreshed

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 25/07/2019 00:13

Well done hummus & onko. Good luck camping in this heat Mr D!

Loved the malfunctioning bra, BCF Grin

Just got home (past midnight, dh fast asleep Shock) after a long awaited catch up with very old friends. Far too much to drink and not the healthiest dinner & snacks (offset very slightly by a vaguely healthy option and a super healthy lunch). FD and signed up to 2 gym classes tomorrow (eek....early morning boxing with hangover....) but working from home to avoid the London commute in scary temperatures after today’s disgusting tube journeys. Lots of iced water and black coffee in the fridge, plus my MIL is cooking in the kitchen all day....should make it easier to stay away from the food!!
Slightly scared the scales won’t still start with a 9 tomorrow...but it was a really lovely, long overdue evening.

SoSydney · 25/07/2019 01:57

Hi all
Ooh Looks like a fab trip bigchoc

Yesterday’s FD came in at 470 and thinking I’ll do another today as I have a big birthday weekend, I’m 50 on Monday and it’d be rude not to so damage limitation for me again.

I’m or nothing so I have to reign it in when I can.
Already 11am here, so I think I’ll be ok with a b2b.

Good luck all Thursday fasters

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/07/2019 08:12

morning all, loving the bra malfunction BCF

Things are finally settling down here - kitchen is fitted, phew, and everything is back in, still need to paint but I now have a beautiful functioning kitchen again :)

Been off with DS this week so not great food wise, but lots of walking and activities done. Planning to do very little today given the predicted heat... a dog walk in a bit before it gets too hot for the old girl, maybe a bath for her as well

Good luck thursday fasters Smile

anunseemlylovefordustin · 25/07/2019 08:34

Morning! I've just started IF again last week, and stumbled across this thread, hope it's ok if I join in. I lost 7lb last week (!!!) and 1lb this week, and am on a fast day today (somehow now as hard as usual, in this punishing heat!). Looking forward to seeing

BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2019 10:11

Welcome, dustin Smile
Congratulations on your SV; good start

Yep, several of us find FDs easier in the heatwave
Important to:

  • drink lots of extra water - I'm getting through 3litres, but I train a lot too
  • and I recommend you glug a level teasp Marmite (10 cals) mid-morning and mid-afternoon, to replenish lost salt & minerals This is useful any FD, to avoid headaches or weakness, but especially when it's so hot

Well done on your FD, sydney and good luck on your b2b
Have a fantastic 50th - and share the fun with us afterwards !

Good luck on your FD, filly
and with the scales tomorrow (don't be depressed if there isn't a 9; you know how to haul it back)

Great news about your kitchen, 43
Enjoy the sparkling new feel - painting can definitely wait until it isn't stupid C

Have a nice cool bath with the dog

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 25/07/2019 11:42

Good luck with the b2b Sydney - and you know you’ll be looking great for your birthday!

Welcome Dustin: sounds like a fab start. Agree it’s much easier to fast in the heat but good advice from BigChoc (as always!) about staying hydrated.

So so glad your kitchen is finally sorted 43 Smile
Hopefully things will start to feel a bit easier without building chaos!

Thanks for the support BigChoc. Scales scraped in at 9.13.6 this morning (phew....!) so hopefully I’ve not done too much damage. But it’s scary to see how fast they start climbing back up. Boxing class was brilliant and exhausting, especially with a hangover - I definitely sweated all of that out by the end! I was planning to do another one this evening but now quite tempted to go drive up to Hampstead Heath for a swim instead. Or maybe as well...:I’m not a good swimmer so it’s not really proper exercise, just a lovely thing to do when it gets this hot!

Good luck to all the (hot!) Thursday fasters Smile

EssentialHummus · 25/07/2019 21:13

Inadvertent b2b today - it was just too hot to eat really. Coffee in the morning, then a green salad with tuna and a boiled egg for lunch, and the same for dinner. And a biscuit. And loads of icy water. We were out in our shady garden most of the day, DD in her paddling pool and me trying to pull up all the creeping buttercup weeds.

How did you get on Sydney?

BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2019 23:00

Well done on seizing the opportunity, hummus

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 25/07/2019 23:22

What a lovely day! Worked from home and really made the most of not spending 3 hours locked in a grim commute. Closing out on 460, plus a great box fit class this morning and a super lush 45 min swim on Hampstead Heath late afternoon. Dh got home early, so we had loads of chilled family time in the garden this evening (I decided not to gym again....!) and the actual fast was so easy when all I wanted was iced water. If only they were all like this!!

Good luck to the Friday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/07/2019 00:20

Well done on the FD and exercise, filly

40C here, decidedly non-lovely

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 27/07/2019 09:54

FD today - anyone else ?

Finally cooled down today from 40C to 30C, with lovely cool rain and storms forecast for the next few days
I may just stand outside on the Rhine bank ..... naked !

OP posts:
IceniSky · 27/07/2019 09:56

Have decided to give IF a go. I am 4'9 and 8 stone and want to drop to 7.4. Weight always stable but over last 18 months started to creep up. Never been 8 stone before. I'm 41 and need to stop it increasing more. My BMI feels big on my frame.

Eat reasonable well, and thought this would be better than slashing daily calories.

Start Monday and plan to eat at lunch and dinner, with coffee in the morning, and marmite drink mid morning.

Wed will be my next day. Have some recipes. Hopefully wont be too bad but will be at work and I get terrible wind if I dont eat and bloated.

GroovieGazelloo · 27/07/2019 13:13

Welcome Ice. At 8 stone, you're already way ( weigh 😊) below the goal I'm aiming for myself. That said, everything's relative too.Good luck to you.

Big Choc, I'm in for my 2nd FD of the week with you. I was going to do one yesterday, then ate a lovely meal that DH prepared - with over 500 cals in.

Great that the weather has changed there for you too. Don't get arrested when you strip in front of the Rhine eh - and if you decide to strip anyway, might I suggest you remove the bra from your head, so as to do this with dignity ?

GroovieGazelloo · 27/07/2019 13:18

Well done on your achievements Filly, Hummus, and hopefully Sydney.

The weather has changed here and so it's lovely to enjoy the refreshing rain. Just been out for a long walk/rum and am pleased and surprised to be progressing. Never thought I could enjoy running. 😊

Hope everyone has a lovely day.

GroovieGazelloo · 27/07/2019 13:20

Walk/ rum
walk/ run
Grin