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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
GroovieGazelloo · 21/07/2019 21:11

Wish those veggies were mine Hummus. They look gorgeous.Grin
Your FD Meal sounds delicious Big Choc.

Like you, Mr. D, I had a lovely day. I went out for a jog this morning and then decided to have my 2nd FD for this week, Just finished the day with a lovely Greek salad. 😊

BigChocFrenzy · 21/07/2019 21:14

Well done on a good 2nd FD, groovie
You've jumped back quickly into the fasting swing

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GroovieGazelloo · 21/07/2019 22:16

Haha 😂 😂 😂
Hope you're ready for your boat trip Big Choc.

Fillybuster · 21/07/2019 23:20

Welcome 214, welcome back Groovie Smile

Super late check in to report on a good FD. So busy chasing around after Fillykids and Fillydog all day that I didn’t have time to think about food. Missed my gym class (sob!) as I got my timings wrong with all the family commitments, but when I got home dh had laid out the living room with my mat and weights, and lined up Evil Jillian on the tv, and made sure I got 30 mins uninterrupted exercise, bless him Grin. I was cursing all the way through but really cheered up after!

Had a slightly too large (& too late...10.30pm) dinner, but exited at 560 so not too bad. Scales have started with a 9 all weekend, so hope to be begin the week in a good place.

Off to catch up properly....BigChoc, your river cruise sounds lush. Hummus - I’ve got the same in my garden! Mini courgettes, peas, tomatoes, beans starting to come in, just wish the caterpillars would leave my broccoli alone!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/07/2019 00:25

Excellent recovery to nail your FD, filly
and your DH is a star !

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OohMrDarcy · 22/07/2019 09:20

Morning all

Having a Monday FD today and got the last of my leftover chilli as my main meal.

We have movement in the digestion department which I'm relieved by! Will plan to continue my aim for increased fibre and hopefully it will continue.

BigChoc - hope your cruise today is fabulous, sounds a perfect way to spend a super hot one! we have predicted 31 here tomorrow which is hot for uk!

usual FDs have moved to today and Thursday this week as camping again end of the week, looking forward to it!

Filly - what a fab DH making sure you got beasted by Jillian Wink fingers crossed your scales started with a 9 this morning!

Hummus - wish I could grow stuff, unfortunately I'm better at killing it off

Groovie sounds like you are back in the zone

Fillybuster · 22/07/2019 10:34

Delighted to hear you have movement, MrD! Grin But it does sound as though you need some long term fibre solutions. Ryvita are pretty good for NFDs, as well as all the cereals BCF suggested. Alternatively, you can buy Fibregel over the counter: it’s a v high fibre powder (made from something plant based...not chemical) that you mix with water - not too tasty but works brilliantly

Scales reported in at 9.11.8 this morning. Unfortunately I’ve ended up with social commitments every night this week so I need to work out how I can fit in a second FD, not exceed FTEE on NFDs and (even more important) some time to get to the gym! Shock

Good luck to all the Monday fasters Smile

OohMrDarcy · 22/07/2019 10:38

Brilliant SV Filly! Congrats Grin
Use that to motivate you on the social commitments this week - Can you prioritise the 1/2 you really want to enjoy and plan to be sensible at the others?? (no idea if that is possible!)

Fillybuster · 22/07/2019 10:48

Thanks MrD Grin I’m mindful this is the critical time for me to remain focussed, with my first goal (9.9) finally almost in sight. Dh was laughing at me as I was trying to wiggle out of some of this weeks commitments in order to fit in another FD and more gym time - not in a bad way, but it’s quite out of character!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/07/2019 14:38

Excellent news about movement, MrD
Let's hope your tum makes up for lost time !

Good luck on your FD

Well done on your SV, filly excellent news

Your DH shouldn't laugh;
you need to reduce the social / business occasions permanently, because they are what put on the weight
and once you reach goal, here's another 5:2 mantra:

"If you slip back into your old WOL, then you slip back to your old weight & waist"

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onko · 22/07/2019 14:55

Monday FD half way through (eaten nowt so far).
Good to hear you have finally ‘dropped your kids off at the pool’ Mr D.
Have a lovely river cruise BCF.
Good luck to all other Monday fasters

GroovieGazelloo · 22/07/2019 15:02

Thanks for the welcome back Filly. Well done on your FD and your scale victory too. I’m jealous of your 9. And, for once, beginning to imagine myself seeing it too in a few months. 😊
At the moment I’m aiming for 65kg and hope to be down there at the end of summer.

All the best with your FD today and great news about the lower department Mr. D - what a relief eh ! 😂

Here I’ve taken up the couch to 5k and am enjoying the training. I’m combining it with nordic walking too. I like the poles because I’m always falling down and the terrain I run on is often so rocky.

GroovieGazelloo · 22/07/2019 15:04

All the best for your FD onko. Smile

MazDazzle · 22/07/2019 15:28

‘dropped your kids off at the pool’ Grin Oh that did make me laugh onko!

Had a hectic few days of socialising and a night away, so it feels good to be back on the fasting train today. We’re off on holiday on Thurs, so I’d like to get another FD in before then.

Had a PT session this morning, so feeling rather virtuous this Monday.

Currently sitting in a trampoline park glugging black coffee and trying not to look at the scones! Good luck to all of the other Monday fasters.

OohMrDarcy · 22/07/2019 19:03

Kitchen closed on 550 today after adding a sprinkle of grated cheese to my chilli.

🤣 at dropping the kids at the pool!

Hope other fasters have had a good one!

onko · 22/07/2019 20:24

Ended on 519 cal. About 120 cals of picking when I got home from work (which I dutifully MFPd) then poached salmon with veg (which I scoffed in about 90 secs flat 🙈).

Oh and great SV filly. I’d be so happy with that weight - are you near to goal? What are your maintenance plans?

BigChocFrenzy · 22/07/2019 21:32

Well done on your FDs, MrD, Onko

Excellent cardio, groovie which should boost fitness and calorie-burning

I recommend you add 1 day of strength cross-training, lifting weights or bodyweight exercises
You might prefer an HIT blast you could do at home, such as Shred

Well done on your PT day, maz
which should boost your fitness & exercise too

I had a lovely day on the Rhine, 🚢 watching the castles and vineyards go by,
the latter on crazy slopes, see photo

They must lower down the expendable people in each village to plant & tend the vines ! 😂

I spent a few hours along the way, exploring a beautiful Rhine town which is in my top 3 to retire to in January
Natch, I thoroughly checked out the gym - an essential factor in any move

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !
OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 23/07/2019 08:10

Gorgeous photo bigchoc... dont envy those people tending the vines!!

Love that you are checking out the gym in potential retirement location!

NFD here and DS finishes school at lunchtime for the summer so will be going for a short picnic in the heat (due to he 31) ... luckily I now have my summer dress!

Fillybuster · 23/07/2019 11:13

Wow - amazing pic, BigChoc! It’s stunning. Sounds like a perfect day out Smile

Well done on all the successful FDs everyone. I was half thinking about squeezing in an extra FD today but got distracted by a massive chocolate croissant on my way into a meeting and now am frantically trying to work out remaining cals to stay within TDEE. Oops! (yes, I know BCF: bad habits strike back...!)

Slightly saved by having a slightly ill dc at home which gives me a great excuse to skip team social stuff this evening (& lots of beer & snack cals) as I need to go home to check up on them - and can then head to the gym (hurrah!) instead. Dinner is grilled chicken & salad, so I just need to navigate lunch and I reckon I can pull it back.

Scales were 9.12.8 this morning - not great but not too bad. Onko: i started at 10.5 (my heaviest ever); I’m was initially aiming for 9.12 (absolute top level of acceptable for clothes fitting), now targeting 9.9 (which is when things to look reasonable), and half hoping to get to 9.7 (my “perfect” weight) but mainly trying to be more focussed on getting fit and healthy than just thinking about weight.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/07/2019 14:24

Great idea, MrD and you can enjoy your cool dress
Picnic makes a lovely start to the summer hols for DS

Filly You can have treats, but just plan them in advance and allow for special occasions first,
e.g. to enjoy meals with family / friends when it is may upset someone who cooked a lovely 3-course meal wih fancy pud

re team social:
no need to avoid them, just avoid ALL snacks and alcohol - usually easier to be dry than saying you have a 1-drink limit
Be the sophisticated, responsible one who has a glass of sparkllng ice & a slice, so she can drive later and who doesn't snack because she wants to enjoy dinner
(noone has ever remarked on my abstemious habits, but I may have a stone cold killer face Wink)

Often easier when team eats out rather than just drinks - and you choose somewhere that includes protein & salad, but still easier to say no to wine

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 23/07/2019 14:51

I know you’re right, BigChoc, but right now it feels easier to avoid some of the social activities as I’m still finding the willpower thing quite hard. And funnily enough Im funding I actually prefer the days I can get to the gym (weird...!) ShockShock I’m also conscious that I was out for dinner last night (planned) and I’m out for drinks with old friends tomorrow evening (long term diary commitment) so I’m trying to avoid extra “noise” this week. Definitely all work in progress!!

GroovieGazelloo · 24/07/2019 07:21

Hi All,
beautiful picture of the Rhine Big Choc,. How hard it must be to tend those vines though ! Now we know why some don’t need to go to the gym.

I like the title of this thread. And at the moment, I’m enjoying making friends with running. It’s a great experience for me. 🥰Re the strength training, I’ll see. 😊 Going our for another run before the temperature starts rising.

All the best to today’s fasters.

onko · 24/07/2019 07:36

Bit of a boozy night at the cricket for me yesterday (3 pints 🙈) offset by super healthy breakfast and lunch and a measly dinner of pre-cooked chicken breasts and grapes to stay within TDEE. Not bad all in all but a rubbish foundation for today’s fast day - my stomach already feels empty and ready for food.

Good luck to all other Wednesday fasters 🤞

EssentialHummus · 24/07/2019 07:59

Amazing picture bigchoc. I'm fasting too onko - actually battled to eat in the heat yesterday, so may as well make the most of it! Have got lots of bottles of water in the freezer to sip throughout the day.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2019 08:02

That's brilliant you are making running friends, groovie
You support each other, motivation especially on days when the weather is offputting

Good luck, onko and all the other Wednesday fasters

A teasp Marmite glugged from the jar may help your tum after the beery night

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