Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/03/2019 22:37

Will do bcf and that soup sounds scrummy. .... Smile

OohMrDarcy · 09/03/2019 06:51

Morning all!

Saturday weighin has me at 16st 3lb on the nose.

That is a 2lb loss this week and a total of 1st 9.4lb or 23.4lb

I'm also extremely close to hitting some exciting targets! Will fill you in more when they happen Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2019 08:53

Congratulations on your SV, MrD
That sounds intriguing - time to think of your next non-food reward ?

OP posts:
SpottyDuvet · 09/03/2019 09:08

Hello!

Can I join in please? I fasted yesterday (not too bad) and will weigh in next week as my scales probably broken (lots of very different weights, not just denial...). I saw the results of this WOE on a colleague who looks so great on it, so worth a try! My next FD will be Monday. Hopefully this thread will help me stay on track.

My most likely failing would be to fast all day quite happily then have a massively over 500 meal through greed and excuses of “it can’t be that bad I’ve had nothing all day”.

OohMrDarcy · 09/03/2019 11:29

Newbies are always welcome Spotty! If you are worried about going OTT of an evening, I recommend you learn the mantra " I can have it tomorrow" because that is the beauty of this WOE ... you can. Anything you are fancying, you can have the day after your FD... if you want. 9/10 times I don't feel like it the next day, but I also don't feel deprived... win win

BigChoc it may well be time for a new reward soon, yes

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2019 12:58

Welcome, spotty 🙂
If you are worried you can't stick to supper, then you could split your calories into lunch and dinner

What usually works for FDs is planning, shopping and calorie-counting the day before
and sticking to the plan, no deviations allowed

How to Weigh

. If your scales are old, then the springs may have stretched, to give inaccurate & inconsistent results.
. If they are digital, tests have shown that the results may also change significantly if the batteries are even only half-charged, so try replacing them.

. Use the same scales in the same place on a hard, level surface - not carpet
. ideally 1st thing in the morning before drinking or eating anything, but after loo
. and weigh yourself naked
. Switch on the scales and count to 3, so they have time to calibrate, then step on - don't jump
. Keep still and don't lean to the side or back / front

OP posts:
fiddletree · 10/03/2019 06:55

Congratulations on the SVs Lania, Pisspot, Talkin, MrDarcy and others. Also very impressed by all the good exercise being done on this thread. I am finding my motivation to exercise a bit low at the moment, probably due to 11 months of sleep deprivation Grin. I used to do barre exercises on youtube, so should get back into that as I know it'll up my energy too.

Thanks for the renewed advice to only weigh weekly. I am going to try to do that this week and see how it goes. I guess I have quite a bit of scale-fear, and it's almost easier to do it more regularly and avoid seeing the number jump up (even though that's not likely if I'm sticking to the guidelines).

But, I think the advice is important for me as I do tend to get a bit obsessive and I am aware I don't relax into the WOE especially on NFDs if I do weigh daily. I think calorie counting can make my approach a bit rigid. I'm an all-or-nothing dieter, or have been in the past. My willpower is amazing when it's complete, but as soon as there are grey areas I kind of slip. I've never had an ED, but I am a perfectionist and have a tendency to overthink. Does anyone else struggle with that? I think it'll probably improve as I get more into the swing of things.

Thanks again BigChoc for all the ongoing advice. Your holiday sounds amazing. Enjoy your walks and wonderful restaurant!

43 - don't beat yourself up - you're doing so well.

I'm planning on Mon and Weds FDs this week. Have also been meaning to buy some konjac noodles. I lived briefly in Japan and remember them from there - heaps of fibre/bulk and very few (almost zero) cals. Thought it might be comforting for a FD. Has anyone tried them?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2019 09:19

fiddle Some folk here like konjak noodles;
some (like me !) hate them, which is a shame as they are a good acompaniment to FD meals.

Youtube exercises are a good idea, especially short bursts of intense exercise like Shred

You can chill a bit and avoid detailled cal counting on NFDs, if you mostly follow the 5:2 healthy habits even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals,
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

btw, I'm not on holiday: I live in an appartment right on the Rhine path, in a quiet little village in Germany

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2019 09:21

Some folk only weigh every 4-6 weeks and go by clothes fit in between

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 10/03/2019 14:16

Afternoon all

Have been for a very wet and windy 6 ish ( probably 7 with all the detours taken!) Mile walk this morning. Lots of unexpected obstacles which kept us on out toes, but also most definitely earned the right to chill for the rest of the day (she says, after coming home and getting changed, hanging washing to dry and putting on another load)...

Knackered now! Walking into the wind and uphill at the same time wasn't the most pleasant part of the walk....

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2019 15:48

Good for you, MrD
You're getting fitter all the time

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/03/2019 19:53

fab SV mrd and welcome spotty

Mini FD here (better than nothing I suppose!) just struggling at the moment and feeling I easily slip out of control, not a nice feeling that I haven't had for a long while!

First pilates class tomorrow then fd tues and fri, got a weekend trip away with my bestie on saturday so cue lots of indulgence - cocktails, meal out and copious amounts of wine! so I have to nail this week.....

thanks fiddle I think I could be like you but I've learnt to just weigh every couple of weeks after FD2 and plot weight over time to see the downward trend, unfortunately I did have a ED in my 20s so I know how compulsion can soon take over.ooo good luck, you will crack it and find out what works for you Flowers

Oh and bcf isn't on holiday, how rude is that Grin she often makes me jealous with her sunny rhine walks and meals in amazing cafes [smiles]

fiddletree · 11/03/2019 00:29

Wow, BigChoc, I'm jealous now! That sounds absolutely glorious. We lived in UK for several years and one of the things I regret is that we never made it to Germany while there. One day!

Fab work on the pilates, 43. And thanks for your thoughts about that compulsive tendency, too. We sound a bit similar on that front. I don't know if is even relevant, but in the new MM book, ie Fast800, he mentions a strategy which is counter-intuitive but he says can work if you if you're going through a tough period, and that's just taking a break from the WOE. If your body/mind is just saying no, maybe you could sort of 'honour' that for a bit, and then come back full-strength? He cites something called the "Matador study", in which those who dieted "intermittently" - ie took a break every two weeks - lost more on average than those who dieted hardcore for same period.

However, you sound like you're doing amazingly in general, esp. with weight-loss and fitness and planning ahead for weekend away, etc. Just thought I'd mention it as it's something I've kept in reserve as a possibility if it all gets too much!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 07:02

Well done on your mini, 43

There are 2 different approaches you could try - for say 2 or 3 weeks - to get your fasting mojo back:

  1. Keep to 5:2, but mfp on NFDs too

  2. Have a short break from FDs, as fiddle suggests, no mfp,
    but still keeping to healthy NFD habits so you don't go off track

So,

  • Daily 12:12
    e.g. eat between 8am and 8 pm, with only water between 8pm and 8am

  • NHS alcohol limits,

  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,

  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal

  • lots of water & veg

  • cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones - no more than 1 per day.

OP posts:
YourSarcasmIsDripping · 11/03/2019 07:14

Morning all..starting this today and it will be my first FD . I have two options for dinner so I'll see what I fancy when I get back from work.

Starting weight is 83.2 so a bit lower than I thought, which is a boost in itself.

Good luck to anyone else having a FD today.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/03/2019 07:21

Morning and good luck with your first fd sarcasm

Thanks bcf and fiddle I think I'm going to stick with the 2 fds and try to do better on nfds, I know alcohol scuppers it a lot of the time so I'm not drinking anything until Saturday. Think I just need to take it a week at a time!

SpottyDuvet · 11/03/2019 07:29

Thank you for the lovely welcome! FD today - planning lots of water, then baked salmon and lots of green veg tonight. I’m going to squeeze some cardio in shortly and hope that it doesn’t make me absolutely starving - will try to remember I can have whatever I want (amount within reason) tomorrow!

EssentialHummus · 11/03/2019 07:54

Good luck today spotty, sarcasm, well done mrsd.

FD here today (possibly b2b, we'll see what state I'm in tomorrow) and will be trying to have my main meal at lunchtime rather than supper for more impact. I've not planned anything so it will be a dig around the fridge for a calorie-counted ready meal plus pile of veg.

Belated happy women's day to you all! Flowers

OohMrDarcy · 11/03/2019 09:03

Morning all,

another week and at least we have a sunny start down south!

Going for next FD tomorrow here and feeling good after my walk. BigChoc I think you are right about getting fitter - I was tired but I've had no achy legs or back or anything at all since getting home. I also notice my asthma has improved. we were going up this long hill with the strong wind in our faces ... and I was out of breath , but not wheezing at all - and this is one of the worst times of year for me normally as hayfever kicks in too.

43, well done on your mini - and you are definitely right that it is better than nothing. At the least you are retaining control and not letting it go to the wall. You should be proud! Hope you enjoy pilates

Good luck for FD 1 sarcasm and spotty, drink plenty of water to stop you feeling so hungry!

Enjoy your FD hummous

Earslaps · 11/03/2019 10:11

Checking in for Monday FD, can tell already it's going to be a tricky one!

Spin class already done at 6.30am, plenty of water and green tea to drink so far. I've got miso soup, some homemade kimchi and a small bowl of blueberries for my lunch. Dinner will be poached smoked Basa fillet with a poached egg and wilted spinach- really looking forward to that!

Weekend was a bit of a blowout- we went out for a Chinese and drank far too much alcohol on Saturday night. So yesterday I felt pretty rubbish. Really lovely roast beef for dinner yesterday with giant Yorkshire Puddings but no roast potatoes- we have found we don't need both in one meal, especially when you finish the meal off with steamed syrup sponge pudding!

Good luck to all other Monday fasters, let's see some good losses this week!

Iamblossom · 11/03/2019 10:42

Morning all. Just checking in. Not fasting for real at the moment as only out of hospital on Saturday night after a week with my broken ribs and collar bone. They put a plate in my shoulder Friday morning so was back to square one with the pain from that but at least I am home. Was starting to go mad with sleep deprivation!

Obviously my activity levels have gone from 100 mph to zero so am trying to keep under 1000 cals a day. Haven't had a poo in over a week! Shock

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 10:58

Good luck on your 1st FD, spotty
and good luck to all the other Monday fasters

blossom 💐

1000 cals daily sounds too low, when your body needs to repair itself
I recomment you eat to sedentary TDEE, but cut out all alcohol and all snacks

Aim for 5 portions veg per day, plus 1 portion beans / peas / lentils - with lots of water - to help get your poo moving !

That's a fab health NSV re the asthma, MrD
and you have a fitness NSV too

Good idea, 43
Try to make it a dry week, so including the weekend too, if that is your main trigger.
keep drinking lots of water and boost your veg too

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 11/03/2019 11:02

Thanks BCF, ok will do. For once your instructions re booze will be easy to follow, longest period of abstinence in years!

OohMrDarcy · 11/03/2019 11:07

Glad to hear you're home Blossom - fingers crossed the pain eases soon for you!

earslaps - you are hardcore with your FD spin sessions!

OMGithurts · 11/03/2019 11:24

Hi

I am joining in. I did 5:2 fairly successfully after DC2 was born but fell off the wagon when mat leave ended. DC2 now sleeps quite well, so I feel like I can get back on track. I have some big events coming this summer and would like to not feel like a big fat heap. I have not yet weighed myself. I've given up alcohol for Lent, which is a decent start.