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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/03/2019 11:44

good to hear you are home lamb and hope you have a speedy recovery (and manage to poop soon!)

no can do this weekend bcf as away with a friend, but will be extra good this week to make up for it Grin

Laniakea · 11/03/2019 13:39

Glad you’re out Blossom - I’d just concentrate on healing for now Flowers

FD here, I’m experimenting with eating earlier in the day on FDs. Just had salmon, veg & some Greek yogurt (& coffee with milk) for 420 calories ... will see how I get on this evening!

boxlikeamarchhare · 11/03/2019 14:19

Hi everyone, not posting much as life gets in the way but I am still fasting, another kilo down this week. Great improvement in your asthma MrD.

Poor you Blossom Flowers. I had some spectacular horse riding injuries in my eventing days (broken neck amongst others) but I gather a collar bone is one of the most painful things to have - lots of rest and chocolate for you. I hope it starts to feel better soon. I hope you have got someone lovely to look after your horse so at least that worry is taken care of.

Iamblossom · 11/03/2019 14:33

Hi @boxlikeamarchhare Thankyou. It was a riding lesson. I rode a lot when I was younger and owned a succession of ponies until I was about 17 but haven't really ridden much since then. My sister had booked some lessons for her and her daughters and I joined in! Was really enjoying it, horses were great, and I liked the instructor/owner. Third lesson, she had taken off my stirrups to deepen my seat. Horse hadn't been ridden for two weeks and was really frisky, went into a very fast bouncy trot, I toppled forward, it lurched to the left and over I went taking all my weight on my right shoulder.

A really innocuous fall but I have managed to really do some damage. Confused

OMGithurts · 11/03/2019 14:40

Oh my goodness Iamblossom, you poor thing. Sounds like we need to swap usernames... I hope you have a swift recovery.

Hockneypool · 11/03/2019 15:41

Had a great time in The Netherlands - weather was a bit wild at times. But unlike west coast of Scotland it lasted hours at a time not days! Food was excellent and so was the beer!

Back home busy week at work with a few deadlines and focused for FD Tuesday and Friday.

Look after yourself blossam recovery time and nutrition is very important, along with treats of course!

Love hearing you walking stories MrD I remember your moonwalk training.

Good luck fasters

SpottyDuvet · 11/03/2019 17:05

ICanHaveItTomorrowICanHaveItTomorrowICanHaveItTomorrow.

Ok. I had a couple of hard boiled eggs for lunch with plastic ham. I am clinging on by my fingertips til 6.30pm for the evening meal and will be IN BED BY 7.

(And that fall sounds so frustrating and painful.)

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 11/03/2019 17:16

ICanHaveItTomorrowICanHaveItTomorrowICanHaveItTomorrow

Oh spotty I feel you. Now that I can't, I want to eat everything. I swear bread doesn't normally look this yummy. Grin

Will try to have dinner later so I don't have a big window of time to be temped in.

Had a diet free red bull,a pear and an exante yogurt. Peas and chicken for dinner, not the most inspiring thing but it'll do the trick.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 19:01

Spotty 😂 Hang on, almost there
Drink some water and clean your teeth, to remove temptation to nibble.

Dripping Your FD menu sounds good
more exciting food is better kept for NFDs

Welcome, OMG 🙂 and good luck
You and blossom are Dry Buddies atm

Now you are out of hospital, you can catch up on your sleep, blossom
Did the docs say when you'll be out of plaster and finished with ops - does that plate stay in your shoulder, or must it be removed later ?

Well done on your SV, box
Good steady progress

You broke your neck before Shock

I was thinking of learning to ride after I retire shortly Confused
After reading about the horrendous catalogue of broken bones that you two riders have suffered, I'll stick to my trusty 🚲 bicycle !

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/03/2019 19:02

Stay strong spotty you are almost there

Welcome back hockney sounds like you had a fab time

Well done on your sv box Smile

Nfd here, just had falafel and salad and a tiny slice of banana and pecan loaf, got pilates at 8pm and I'm actually quite apprehensive, I'm not usually bothered about going to these things on my own but envisaging lots of young slim ladies and then I'll roll in Confused hmmmmm, could do with a buddy.

Anyway, I'll pull my big girl pants up and im sure I'll be fine..... well done Monday fasters Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/03/2019 19:04

Welcome omg

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 19:23

Go for it, 43 the Pilates class will be great for firming up the bod

We are all rooting for you, so stride in there proudly, with all of us at your shoulder
There will be all shapes & sizes & ages there, don't worry

At 62, I'm usually the oldest at all my classes, with A cups, 5'3" of me, topped with grey hair
Never bothers me - I'm proud to be fit and still kicking 😀

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 19:25

After a couple of sessions, you'll probably be saying hi to a few people, so no longer all strangers

OP posts:
SpottyDuvet · 11/03/2019 19:33

You see, THAT’s why I knew joining this thread was a good plan! Teeth brushing tip has now been deployed! BCF you’re a genius. I have had a weirdly early bath and at approximately 8pm I am going to pray for sleep to claim me while googling before and after photos and will likely be up at dawn to have a croissant. Maybe.

I think crisis averted! Sarcasm - brush your teeth at once...

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2019 20:03

spotty Switch off all screens, 1 hour before bed
The blue light from gadgets suppresses melatonin levels much more than other light wavelengths.

If you still need to wind down after your bath, listen to relaxing music, or read a paper book

OP posts:
Earslaps · 11/03/2019 21:00

Yum, best FD meal ever!

Smoked basa fillets baked in a foil parcel with black pepper, a splash of lemon and some cherry tomatoes, served with garlic sautéed spinach and a poached egg. So easy and mega tasty- I'd happily have that for a NFD. Finished off with a square of dark chocolate and a large glass of water and I'm so full!

Well done everyone else who has fasted today.

Borris · 11/03/2019 21:13

I dropped off the last thread. Lost some motivation. I’ve decided I’m not going to weigh for a few weeks as every time I don’t see a result I want makes me want to give up and eat my body weight in crisps.

So good FD1 today. Onwards and upwards! (Or rather downwards hopefully!!)

GrannyPenny · 11/03/2019 21:55

Pleased to hear you're back home Blossom, wishing you a healthy and speedy recovery.

A milestone for me today. I had a money off voucher for a minimum spend and needing to add another £3 to get £5 off suggested OH bought large bag of his favourite confectionary. And I feel fine about it. No cravings at all so far. Total savings to date abstaining from sugar stand at £140. I have enough rings so next make will be a skinny gold bangle. Still nervous but hoping a corner has been turned.

Feel my mind is in the right place to resume FDs now and as I have a busy day tomorrow it's probably a good day to commit.

Good to see other returners Borris - the weight loss on this board means there's always space for them to nudge up and make room for us!

How was the pilates 43?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 11/03/2019 22:11

You say all the right things bcf Grin thank you, and as you are mega fit I bet all the other people are a little bit scared of you Smile granny it was fine with a really nice instructor and a smallish group, will be back next week, blooming legs are aching already though!!

That meal sounds lovely earslaps what's the calories?

Welcome back borris and well done nailing your fd.... you'll soon start to shift those pounds

Excellent nsv granny and wow, so much money saved!! Good luck for tomorrow, I'm fasting too

Hockneypool · 11/03/2019 23:04

Well done on going to pilates 43 it’s not easy going to these things on your own - but it’s so worth it. Hope the legs are OK tomorrow?

Earslaps · 12/03/2019 07:02

@Fortythreeandfatasfuck I have to admit I'm a bit rubbish as I don't really count calories much, just guess it's the right amount!

We did count it for DH though- the fish was 97 calories for a 110g piece, maybe another 10 caps for a spray of oil on the foil to stop it sticking and a splash of lemon juice for flavour. About 80 calories for a large egg, 10 for the spinach plus 30 for half a tsp of olive oil to fry the garlic in and wilting the spinach then maybe another 30 max for the tomatoes? About 260ish then? Plus 50 for a square of dark chocolate.

EssentialHummus · 12/03/2019 07:53

Good work on the pilates 43!

That sounds delicious ear - spinach and garlic is one of my favourite combinations.

It's incredible seeing the savings quantified like that granny

the weight loss on this board means there's always space for them to nudge up and make room for us! Grin Grin

Day 2 of a b2b here. Had my main meal at lunch yesterday, the usual ready meal with added veg, then just coffee and a rice cake later (made slightly more difficult by the fact that I was working late with my kitchen in sight). Let's see how today goes!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 12/03/2019 09:20

thanks hockney and essential legs are fine-ish today, a little bit achey but nowt too bad

Thanks for that ears

FD today, skinny latte once at the office
Chicken subway salad and sugar free jelly for lunch
soup possibly (cos its sodding freezing!) for dinner

Good luck with your B2B essential

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2019 09:23

Wow, great milestone, granny and really well done
That money saved just from sweet junk is amazing
Yes, you sound in a really good place to resume FDs and zap the last bit of belly fat

Hummus Sounds like you have organised a fasting system that suits you
I also loved granny's idea of all the lost inches leaving more room for newbies to clamber on board ! 😂

Well done for going there, 43
That sounds a really good class for you
Every new achievement makes you stronger & more capable of the next

Your FD meal sounds so delic, earslaps
I find fish is brilliant on FDs, so versatile & healthy

That's good policy Borris to avoid scales if the number can demotivate you
Other folk who are anxious have weighed every 4-6 weeks, to allow time to smooth out blips
Just go by clothes fit

Especially if you haven't much to lose now, progress can naturally slow down after losing the first chunk
but
"it's a WOE not a race"
and you'll get to goal at a pace that suits your individual body & lifestyle

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 12/03/2019 09:37

Morning all

Tuesday FD for me - waving hi to other Tuesday fasters!

Well done for braving the pilates 43! Bet you feel good for going, and achy legs means muscles got used - so a very good thing Smile

I've got left over beef casserole for lunch and soup for dinner I think today - I do love how I always have leftovers now I'm planning meals better with the DC.... means I'm eating better at lunchtimes too - and even more veg goodness!

One thing I'm not so good at is meals in the warmer weather - I'll have to start researching things we might all like well in advance! That seems a long way off with the current weather patterns mind Hmm

So much to catch up on, I did read it all but can't remember much!

I did spot a broken neck Shock which sounds pretty insane though!