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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2019 21:20

Well done on your SV and your compliments NSV, succeed
People are noticing the lost inches.

Fund Your BMI is currently 21.6, which is medium range of healthy BMI , so you're already doing well
Your goal weight would give 20 BMI, which is towards the lower end

It is quite possible that you can't get lower, at least while BFing, as that will resist your body getting down to the minimum fat stores.
That may be the cause of this hunger - or it could be that your diet is rather junky & snacky
If you can safely go lower, without affecting supply, the rate of loss would be v slow, maybe 1 lb per month or longer

My recommendations

  • Consider whether you really need to lose weight atm Your BMI is fine. Is it because you think you have excess fat around the middle ?

Is your waist (measured at narrowest point, usually 2" above the navel) less than half your height ?
i.e. waist < 33"
If it is 33" of higher, you may be able to lose a little fat; if it is about 28" or less, you probably can't while BF

  • If you decide to continue FDs to reduce waist, then go up to 1000, or even 1200 cals

  • it might be more doable to give up FDs and concentrate on stopping snacking between meals and avoiding junk
    Snacking - even in healthy food - hinders fat burning
    Snacking is for people who need to gain weight

  • Do daily 12:12, i.e. eat within a 12-hour window,
    e.g. 7:30 am - 7:30 pm, with only water the other 12 hours

  • Don't worry too much about specifically Mediteranean and don't try low carbing
    Just concentrate on 3-4 reasonably nutritious meals per day, as little junk as possible, low alcohol
    Links to good FD and NFD recipes are in the OP under the "How to Start" section

Base meals on protein with different veg portions and some starchy carbs, preferably wholegrain
Aim for 5 portions veg plus 1-2 portions fruit

To reduce hunger
Increase: protein, beans / peas / lentils, full-fat Greek yoghurt, olives

Cut back: sweet junk - cake, biscuits, sweets etc
and
Avoid: flavoured fizzy drinks - including diet ones, fruit juice, dried fruit, more than 2 portions fruit per day.

  • If you feel flabby, you could improve this by doing bodyweight exercises and lifting some light weights, e.g. a pump or Pilates class, 2 x weekly plus say 1-2 x weekly a spin class or a 40 minute run for cardio If time poor, then try a YouTube video at home, e.g. Shred
OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 07/03/2019 21:21

Im down 300g which isn’t a lot but I’m pleased as my BMI is 23.8 now and I’ve been expecting things to slow. Weight is 68.3, I’m aiming for 64ish. As you know DH doesn’t know I’m fasting and has never mentioned my weight (even with 11kg extra) but I can tell he’s noticed my weight Smile. Which isn’t why I’m doing this but he is so super fit and lean and I hated feeling like the fat spouse. I need to learn that even through we’ve both run that doesn’t mean we can eat the same amounts. Firstly, because I’m a peri menopausal woman and secondly because my 5km run uses a tad less energy than his 50km one.

Good luck to Friday fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2019 21:26

Well done on your b2b, scruffy
You're back in your fasting system

On your NFD tomorrow, try to be sensible about carbs & have just 1 treat, if you fancy one
How about a dry Friday & weekend, too, to make sure you have it under control ?

This week, despite sunny intervals, we've had 100kph winds, which try to lift up my bike sideways Hmm
Fortunately the cycle lanes are mostly a few meters away from the road, so it's safe enough

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2019 21:32

Well done on your SV, surprised
It's continuing gradual progress - it's usually tougher at peri / post meno
and you are well into healthy BMI

Your OH sounds a good sort
but remember at mealtimes that his TDEE is probably 1000+ higher than yours - biology sucks again

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 07/03/2019 23:27

When I had a weight in the 70s I was losing average 700g a week, once I went below 70kg it dropped to 400g/week average, it’s good to know that though so I can manage my expectations.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2019 07:09

morning all, anyone fasting ?

I love my regular Friday (NFD) program:

I'm just back from my early morning bike ride (16 km)
and I'll be off to the gym soon for strength & flexibility class
Then cycle to my fav restaurant for grilled salmon & salad lunch & a long MN session
cycle back to the gym for Sauna, relaxing
walk along the Rhine
then a 40 min hand & foot massage
and finally egg salad supper at my fav Rhine cafe with more MN

surprised 400g is just under 1lb - an average longterm loss once you haven't a few stone to lose

OP posts:
YourSarcasmIsDripping · 08/03/2019 07:16

Morning, no fasting yet but I've done my foodshop and planned for next week. Only bought one loaf of bread to last the 3 of us for the week. I'm excited and a bit scared.

Didn't get my steps in yesterday (shit day at work,just wanted to crash) but will make up for it today.

Good luck to everyone.

Your day sounds amazing BigChoc

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2019 07:57

You sound very well organised for next week, dripping
Have a relaxing walk outside if you have time today - a good way to start the weekend

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 08/03/2019 08:17

Morning all

Checking in for Friday FD here, not been around much this week - works been crazy! I've been reading but not quite having time to post.l as much.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/03/2019 08:30

Morning everyone, just logging on quickly to say fd for me today.... been super busy and probably not that great on my nfds (no time to mfp properly) but just one of those weeks.... Will try and read back through the thread at some point but welcome newbies and well done on any SVs and NSVs Grin

Laniakea · 08/03/2019 08:49

I braved the scales this morning - I've lost 11 pounds in the last month (last weighed Feb 7th). I was 3 pounds heavier than I estimated which shows I'm better at having a clue what I weigh than I thought! That's a total loss of 2 stones 2 pounds since I started back on 5:2 after Christmas.

Fast yesterday was fine, I've decided to do ADF for the rest of March - I know that the weight loss will slow down now but I'd like to lose as much of the 3 stones left as possible before the end of June. That's still two stone heavier than my happiest weight but that's just vanity. My main goal is to say goodbye to my huge tummy which is stubborn fat.

Hockneypool · 08/03/2019 08:51

Morning all

No more fast days this week. Just mindful eating and lots of walking. I’m in the Netherlands for the weekend near the German border visiting DD1 for the weekend. BCF it’s on the banks of the Rhine! too - a most impressive river!

Happy international women’s day everyone.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2019 11:38

Good luck today, MrD, 43

Congratulations on your SV, Lania
Fab progress since you started, January and February

Hockney atm, we just have very impressive winds - 85 kph - and rain
So my Rhine walk will be postponed until it is a pleasure, not a chore.
I hope you have much better luck in the NL

and thanks for reminding us all of this .....

Happy International Women's day 2019, everyone ! 🥳

OP posts:
YourSarcasmIsDripping · 08/03/2019 12:28

BigChoc I have to be otherwise I flounder. My meals even without fasting are fairly repetitive and simple,but it helps knowing what I'm having what cals they are etc.

Part of my job (at least today) is a 20 min brisk walk somewhere and back so will make up for yesterday.

I have to say I am probably a bit fitter than last year, as I didn't want to die as soon as I got there.Grin

OohMrDarcy · 08/03/2019 13:02

43 its like you are my fasting twin Grin hope your FD is going well too.

Lania - that is an incredible loss - congrats!

Hockney - sounds like a good plan for the rest of your week. Smile

BigChoc - booo to the winds... sounds like the weather that was with us a few days ago! Was pretty rubbish! Very mixed here at the moment - was cold but sunny this morning - now windy and raining again! Hoping to get out for a walk on Sunday so best not be too horrific or it will get deferred!

Sarcasm - sounds like you've got yourself a good plan for next week!

Wishing you all a very happy international womens day - a great bunch of inspiring and supportive ladies!

TalkinPaece · 08/03/2019 13:51

1lb down this week. That will do nicely.
Seven more of those and I'm at happy weight for my birthday :-)

PissPotPourri · 08/03/2019 16:30

Hi all.
Lania that is a super impressive and inspiring loss. Awesome.
FD here. Finding it really hard today and putting it down to 3 things.

  1. Have been really good on my NFDs and have come in nicely under my TDEE but last night I had a low carb vegan meal for dinner and think it was way less calorific than I thought, meaning I started the day hungry.
  2. I came on this morning
  3. I went for a 6km run to start the day, followed by a housework-heavy day doing things like mopping the floor.
Anyway, had a mushroom stroganoff Soulpot for lunch (237 cal) which filled me up a bit and just have to take the kids swimming before i can settle down to 100g roast gammon and lashings of vegetables. I should probably mention that I'm feeling nicely motivated by a 4.5lb loss since I started 2.5 weeks ago. Considering I haven't got masses to lose (bmi 22.3 currently) I'm very pleased with the start. Aiming for another 3lb for the start of April when I'm heading off for a 4 day break to Spain without the dc...assuming Brexit doesn't put pay to my travel plans! Good luck other FDers
Earslaps · 08/03/2019 17:11

Well done on the amazing loss @Laniakea! And all the other losses.

I had a successful FD yesterday, but I'm measuring after the first fast due to early morning at the gym on Fridays. Don't want beeping scales waking the whole house up at 5.30am! Brilliant session at the gym burning 500 calories from exercise before 7am! At 16000 steps so far today. Steak, spinach and tomatoes for dinner plus cheesecake and wine!

Excellent news- I've managed to persuade DH to do 5:2. He's done calorie counting before but feels too restricted on it (endless appetite!) so I managed to persuade him 5:2 would work best. His TDEE is about 2,600 so he's starting off with 1000 calorie FDs and about 2,000-2,200 on NFDs with more on the weekends. He lost 4lbs this week so fingers crossed he'll stick at it. He's got about 20lbs to lose for his target. He's very tall and quite muscular and we worked out that even if he cut his body fat to under 10% he'd still be in the overweight BMI zone. But he stores all his weight round his middle and his nan had type 2 diabetes so I'm relieved he's trying to lose a bit of tummy.

OohMrDarcy · 08/03/2019 17:42

Just getting ready to sit down to my FD meal of an amazing looking beef casserole.. yummy

TiP fab SV well done

Pisspot it will be TOTM... keep glugging the water and you'll get through. Fab SV to motivate

Earslaps, great news getting your DH on board too!

TalkinPaece · 08/03/2019 17:48

Earslaps
Your DH will be like mine - loses the weight offensively fast Smile

If you have access to a BodiTrax machine, get him to go on it because the fat distribution percentages can be a real wake up call.
My body fat is 29% but its all sub cutaneous, moslty on my hips. Visceral fat is zilch. So I'm chilled.

Earslaps · 08/03/2019 18:25

@TalkinPaece unfortunately he's usually slow to lose weight, I find it easier. I have more self control. He's a terrible grazer and often grabbing snacks when it's nearly dinner and just before bed. Plus he hates vegetables and will eat as few as he can get away with.

There's a bodytrax machine at our gym (though currently out of order), so I'll get him to go on there. And I will hop on there too to see how I'm going.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/03/2019 18:40

Argh.... it's all gone to shit Sad
Going to try again on Sunday. ... well done to those with more willpower than me today!! Shock

OohMrDarcy · 08/03/2019 18:42

Dinner was delicious, so now I'm nice and full and the kitchen is closed on 471 plus a couple of splashes of milk. Loads of veg - leek, celery, chopped tomatoes, carrots, Swede plus my kidney beans and beef - stuffed.

Wish I had access to a boditrax machine! Though suspect I'd have to not look at the results for a month or so until I could compare and see a decrease!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2019 18:44

Congratulations on your SVs, TiP, PissPot
Good progress for both of you.

Don't worry, 43 Happens to us all
Just move on and nail the FD on Sunday instead

That's great news about your DH joining you, earslaps - easier for you if you can synch your FD days
Sounds like priority #1 for him is to kick the sback habit - permanently
That will make a difference

As he is very muscular, I recommend setting the goal for his waist, rather than scales

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/03/2019 18:48

Well done, MrD

I'm sitting in my fav Rhine cafe, enjoying a delic soup made by the Patisserie master chef - he's very versatile.
It's red beet & cranberry, with a dollop of cream on top
The perfect mix of savoury, with just a hint of sweet tang

OP posts:
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