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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
EssentialHummus · 23/04/2019 07:10

Signing in for a FD with you mrd, 43. I didn't fast over the weekend but tried not to go nuts with food, hopefully all fine (we'll see tomorrow eh?). We have our family holiday in three weeks so I'll like to keep losing as we get closer to that.

OohMrDarcy · 23/04/2019 07:39

Morning all,
3 of us already fasting today- fab to see everyone jumping straight back into it!

I couldn't fast giving blood even if I wanted to bigchoc I have a reward scheme based on speed of donation Grin I'm hoping for an orange club bar this week!

harriethoyle · 23/04/2019 08:18

I'm fasting too! Good luck @essential @mrdarcy @fortythree !

fiddletree · 23/04/2019 10:11

Happy Easter all.

Just backtracking on what I've missed! nolonger Yes, I've found it hard to see the difference objectively, too. Sometimes it's really only my clothes that tell me I’ve lost. I sometimes catch myself in the mirror and see it, but I never really felt that overweight - and in fact I don't think that many have noticed the overall weightloss, even though it's around 6/7kg. I wish I’d taken some pics too!

Hope your little one is fully recovered essential.

Well done on recent successful fast days, blodyn, seriously, lania and others.

Congrats on super-impressive SV MrDarcy - plus your hair sounds fantastic!

Welcome Wonderful Wink [we are friends IRL, but tragically separated by several continents!]. This group is the best, and BigChoc is an intermittent fasting genius and guru. I have found it so helpful...

DrWhy - your BFing sugar craving sounds SO familiar. I found going cold turkey on sugar really hard at first, but increasing my low-carb proteins (tofu, cottage cheese, eggs) has really helped. Plus a judicious square of dark choc is quite a good consolation!

I'm still sort of feeling my way through on the maintenance. Planned a few indulgences, including a lovely roast on Easter Sunday, with wine, dessert, etc. Did feel a bit wobbly, though, like – am I out of control? Am I just going to eat all the things? But, it was…okay. Decided to have a mini FD yesterday (I’m actually not sure of calories, but just kept carb intake generally low, and didn’t have breakfast). I think I’m back to normal-ish (new normal, that is) today?

Good luck to all FDers. I'm going to weigh-in tomorrow and either do a FD or mini-FD depending on where I'm at.

hoochymamgu · 23/04/2019 10:42

Hello all Smile
Grabbing a fast day today, tricky as I am at home all day, but just mowed lawn and have a list of jobs to keep me busy Wink
The marmite worked well Big choc but a spoonful was bleurgh, will take it in hot water today. It stopped the headache though Smile
Lots of drinks today, a cheese omelette planned tonight, sadly no prawns to hand Grin
Happy FD to those joining me!

Earslaps · 23/04/2019 12:34

Hi all, hope you all had a good Easter. I was silent on here over Easter as I took a bit of time off 5:2. Did a successful FD the first day of the school holidays and squeezed in a few 16:8s, but otherwise I have enjoyed all the hot cross buns and Easter eggs knowing I could hop back on the 5:2 train after the holidays.

So today is the first FD for a couple of weeks. I've been living on green tea so far and will have a spoonful of marmite later. I think we'll have some sea bass fillets for dinner as I have a couple in the freezer. I'm pleased to be fasting again as I certainly noticed I felt bloated and not my best when stuffing my face!

Good luck to all other fasters today.

OohMrDarcy · 23/04/2019 16:23

Loads of post easter fasting going on today - fab to see!

Kitchen closed here on under 522 - third bottle of water on the go at the moment too.

How is everyone else doing?

DrWhy · 23/04/2019 17:51

Lots of good FD going on by the look of it, good luck to everyone and stay strong through the evening.

I’m still not over the sugar cravings but hopefully this will help and if I can stick it out another week I’ll be there. Good tip on the dark chocolate fiddletree thanks.

I got on the scales yesterday and I’m currently 74kg, which is around my heaviest. I was this weight at about 6 months pregnant with DS! I lost most of the baby weight very quickly then piled it back on while on mat leave and weighed about this when he was the same age that DD is now. Shifted a bit when he stopped feeding to sleep and I could go out in the evening and exercise then got pregnant again and decided to just eat the world! I was about 67kg for my wedding and my goal that I haven’t honestly made in about 10 years is 64kg. I’m 5ft7 and although that wouldn’t exactly put me at the bottom of the weight range it will do! The main thing I need to do is tone up, start some exercise both cardio and weights. Buggy fit class starts on Thursday and from early May I’ll be able to run with the buggy.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/04/2019 18:19

A lot of fasters today, clocking in right after Easter Smile

Well done, mrD, you've already nailed yours
Not long to go on your FD, 43, hummus, harriet, hoochy, earslaps

Resuming exercise is a good idea, DrWhy
Intake is dominant in weight management though, about 90% of the task for almost everyone

Whether in the weight loss or maintenance phase,
on NFDs, try to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits,
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

Don't worry, fiddle
If you weigh regularly - at least weekly - and keep to the above 5:2 healthy habits, you should be fine

If your scales show you're say 5lb above Happy Weight and / or clothes feel tight, then you can tune your WOL
That's quite usual after a holiday break, so again, no worries, just resume full 5:2 until you are back at goal

As you only had 6-7kg to lose, that may not make a big difference to how you look at first glance,
but your shape has probably changed, especially a smaller waist
and it has probably improved various health markers, such as the amount of viscous (around organs) fat and your insulin metabolism

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 23/04/2019 18:29

Ending the day on 662 and going to do day 2 tomorrow so I get them out of the way... might sneak in a FD on Fri as Mr Hoyle needs picking up from the airport at 10pm so I won't be drinking and I'll feel super virtuous before the weekend!!

How's everyone else getting on? Well done @oohmrd!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/04/2019 18:34

Well done, Harriet
and a good idea to take advantage of driving and make Friday an FD; shortens any weekend indulgence

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/04/2019 18:55

Well done mrd harriet and all the other fasters Smile

Nailed mine bcf at 520cals.... feeling so much better for being back in control after the long weekend. ... fd #2 planned for Fri although I might try a mini either tomorrow or Thursday

Still not read the thread but well done on any svs nsvs and welcome to any newbies Grin

EssentialHummus · 23/04/2019 19:13

Well done Tuesday fasters! I just had the one meal at lunchtime, a ready meal with a pile of veg, two coffees with very little milk, and a Diet Coke. Luckily no easter chocolate to work off here (we’re not Christian), and actually I think I was fairly moderate over the weekend - but I forgot to collect my thyroid med prescription on Thursday and have been off them since. It’s fine and surmountable but being underactive can seriously affect weight, so a lesson there not to do that again.

No b2b for me tomorrow as it’s DD’s day in childcare so I always look forward to a leisurely lunch at a cafe. Next FD will be Thurs.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/04/2019 19:50

Well done, 43, hummus

That's good you feel back in control, 43

Enjoy your lunch in peace tomorrow, hummus

OP posts:
MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 23/04/2019 21:25

Hello all, good to see everyone negotiated Easter!

I've been trucking along fairly happily - FD today which meant half a cuppa this morning as I tried to get out of the door on time after a week off, then a black coffee and lots of water during work, and then home this evening to cauliflower cheese and a pile of steamed cabbage.

It's pretty easy really (especially now dp is on board as well) as long as I remember to drink plenty during the day otherwise I end up headachey and grumpy. But I must admit I quite enjoy the discipline of a FD, and just keep reminding myself of all the lovely autophagy going on Grin Grin

Now I just need to up the exercise a bit...I am a lazy arse if left to my own devices but have been getting off the train a stop earlier in the mornings and walking the rest of the way into work. We've also been doing decent longish walks most weekends. I need to do some sort of resistance training though...the menopause is beckoning...

BigChocFrenzy · 23/04/2019 22:07

Well done on your FD, Maud

Resistance training is good idea
and for peri / meno especially, I recommend HIIT, e.g. spin, pump, sprint intervals, Shred

Mosely has collected research showing especially the benefits of v short intense HIIT Fat Blasts:
just 2-5 mins on 3-5 days per week, at home or in the park or gym, see 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP

Research shows they** are surprisingly good at improving fitness and also correcting some insulin metabolism issues

  • meno usually causes changes in insulin metabolism that increase fat storage, especially around the mid-section.
OP posts:
DrWhy · 23/04/2019 22:40

Thanks BCF the excersize is more to change my shape than aid in weight loss - oh and because I’m currently entered into two sprint triathlons Confused Exercise also massively helps my mental health, which isn’t in the best place right now. Your last post about the menopause scares me! I think I need to get into shape before it hits so at least then i ‘just’ have to maintain!

EssentialHummus · 24/04/2019 07:47

Sprint triathlons sound intense dr, wow!

Minor loss on the scales this morning, which suits me fine, though (as predicted) things have slowed down as I get towards goal weight. What's been good though are a few NSVs, not least rushing out to buy smaller jeans as my size 14s were almost falling off! I also at times am really happy with my flat(ish) belly, which is a big change.

Good luck to any Wednesday fasters.

Earslaps · 24/04/2019 08:12

Yesterday's FD went well- water and green tea all day, a spoonful of marmite at lunchtime and then baked sea bass fillets with a ton of roasted veg for dinner. Then s delicious cinnamon and date chia pot for breakfast and off for a run after school drop off.

Today's weigh in showed that I'm back to where I was two weeks ago despite the Easter indulgence! Next FD will be tomorrow.

Well done to everyone who had a successful FD yesterday and good luck to all Wednesday fasters.

harriethoyle · 24/04/2019 08:54

Excellent nsv @essential and well done on your FD @earslaps

Really wanted a hot cross bun this morning so have swapped my dinner choices up and all being well will come in at 696 for day 2 of b2b... complete with hot cross bun breakfast!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/04/2019 09:05

Congratulations on your SV, hummus
and the jeans & tum NSVs

Sprint triathlons are excellent exercise, DrWhy
and the shorter distances ramp up the intensity

Many folk find exercise helps MH and stress

Well done on your healthy menu FD, earslaps and SV
You're right back on track already.

Good luck, harriet and any other Wednesday fasters

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 24/04/2019 09:10

Well done all on the lovely SVs / NSVs going on - loving the sound of size 14 jeans falling down!

I'm well into the 16s on top now - well, I bought 3 different tops last weekend and they all fit lovely anyway! Don't think I'm far away from dropping down on the bottom half too - the 18s are definitely loose but the 16s not comfortable yet. Maybe another 10lb at most. Being a pear I'm always a bit bigger on the bottom half anyway so not bothered.

NFD here and I'm making a steak pie for dinner. I'd say 9/10 times I'm now eating goal TDEE naturally - only if I'm eating out do I go over I suspect, and often then I have a lighter lunch to compensate - so the lifelong lessons are continuing.

FD tomorrow and then giving blood Friday for me.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/04/2019 10:31

morning all, some fab SVs and NSVs Grin its so lovely going down a size.

NFD today and not had anything yet, just contemplating what I can have for lunch, not inspired yet!!!

nolongersurprised · 24/04/2019 11:40

drwhy your numbers are similar to mine! I’m 170cm and was horrified when I weighed myself last November and found I was 75.5kg. Easily the heaviest I’ve been, ever, apart from children. I’m aiming for 64 as well which is my usual healthy, don’t look too skinny kind of weight.

We’ve had guests over Easter so it’s been tricky and there’s been a lot of food prep. I had a great FD Monday but yesterday ended up making and eating a massive lasagne coupled with wine - I usually never drink mid week. Today I started a FD but bailed at dinner time due to having to cook a meal for extended family complete with pre dinner snacks. However I’m probably under 1200 for the day so overall quite pleased.

Friday will be the optimal second fast day. I’ve the day off work, the kids will be at school and all guests will be gone Smile

Good luck to the Wednesday fasters.

Ithinkyourewonderful · 24/04/2019 11:45

Hello everyone!

I'm also just checking in after Easter. Seems like there are lots of people motivated to get back on the wagon after a few Easter indulgences. Well done for those who have had NSVs and SVs!

Hi Fiddletree - separated by continents, but joined by 5:2 diet! maybe I'll keep better track of what's going on in your life this way Wink

I am getting near my goal weight of 60kgs! 61.6kgs today. I had 8 kgs to loose, which is not so much but it feels great to fit my clothes again. I've been enjoying wearing things that have been relegated to the back of the wardrobe for a long while! I may revise my goal down to 58/59 kgs (closer to my 'ideal weight' according to the online calculators), but I'll see how it feels. Actually I have very rarely been under 62 kgs in my adult life so it might feel too extreme for me even if it looks better/is ideal health-wise. Does that make sense?

On my fast days, I have been feeling lightheaded, dizzy, and shaky, which I associate with low blood sugar. I usually skip breakfast and each lunch and dinner with plenty of protein. Anyone else have this problem?

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