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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Laniakea · 19/04/2019 19:09

I’m fasting today & tomorrow Darcy :) Sunday will be calorific but hopefully I will come out a bit under maintenance over the weekend. Still not 100% with the IBS but I had a bit of hummus & carrot today & survived (fingers crossed!).

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend!

OohMrDarcy · 19/04/2019 19:15

Kitchen closed on around 535. It involved a little guesswork as we went for a picnic in the sunshine (same weather here bigchoc), so I had that as my main meal - chicken / cheese / salad. Needed the energy as the kids wanted a game of baseball which was ace fun Grin sprinting for the home run nearly killed me, but I wouldn't have tried at all when heavier.

Lania hope your FD has been good too, brave doing b2b on the bank holiday weekend!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/04/2019 19:30

Well done, MrD
Being able to join in the baseball is another fitness NSV

Good luck with your b2b, Lania
Amazing at Easter

and I hope your IBS behaves.
Gradually building up sensitive foods as you are doing sounds sensible, but slowly does it

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OohMrDarcy · 20/04/2019 06:29

Morning all

A 1.6 lbs loss for me this week. Total loss is now 2st 4.8lb. So happy pootling along, and that loss considering we've been out of routine etc this week I'm over the moon with. Smile

Assume its quiet on here for the bank holiday weekend.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/04/2019 12:43

Congratulations on your SV, MrD

You have amazing focus now, even over Easter
You said you thought the old you was finally back, after all the tough times you've had, breaking up and the aftermath.

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Laniakea · 20/04/2019 12:52

MrD that is fabulous! So well done! Star

OohMrDarcy · 20/04/2019 14:07

Thanks both

Yes BigChoc I definitely did say that and still think its true. After hitting my 30lb marker last week I've been and had my hair coloured by my hairdresser this morning (normally a box colour) .... gone a shade lighter with some subtle balayage highlights (caramelly rather than very blonde) in it too as my treat. Pretty much bang on 1/3 of the way to goal today so its a well earned treat!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/04/2019 16:45

That's a fab non-food reward, MrD - for a fab milestone !

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EssentialHummus · 20/04/2019 20:24

Well done mrd! NFD here today, a lovely day gardening in the sunshine. Toddler DD was "helping" Grin and spent ages shifting soil from one container to another. I'm building/planning a vegetable garden as we have a lot of space, and it's wonderful exercise (and an excuse to chat to the lovely neighbour). Wishing everyone a wonderful Easter!

Laniakea · 20/04/2019 20:45

Managed it! Grin less than 500 both days & lots of exercise. I’ve spent most of today cooking - tomorrow & Monday are big family meals ... I’m going to do my best to enjoy it without worry & plan another FD on Tuesday.

The weather is glorious!

DrWhy · 20/04/2019 21:13

Hi Folks - I’m back! Waves to BigChoc who she remembers from ‘the olden days’. I got to pretty much my target weight for my wedding nearly 4 years ago now with 5:2 and stayed there until I got pregnant and had to stop fasting. I made a brief reappearance between DC1 and DC2 having realised I was actually gaining weight on mat leave rather than loosing it but I never quite managed to figure out how to work it when making meals that were also toddler suitable. Then yep, pregnant again! DC2 is now 5 months and I’m more than 1.5st heavier than I was at my wedding.

I’ve been filling my days of endless feeding with choc chip cookies and hot chocolates and ended up totally hooked on sugar. I have just had a hideous week of stomach bugs (both DCs and me) and whilst we aren’t out of the woods yet I figure I might as well get something positive out of it! Yesterday was a total fast day and today about 300 cals of bland food so I’m going to use this to kick the sugar cravings and start getting my eating under control.
I think my TDEE is about 1600 and my FD are 600 because I’m still breastfeeding. I’m trying to work out my FDs, it’s either Mon and Thurs or Tue and Thurs as I don’t have the toddler with me then who won’t understand why I’m not eating breakfast. I am going to start a buggy exercise class on Mon and Thurs so making them my fast days too might be a stretch but it spreads them out more.

I’m going to try to keep posting here and using MFP to keep me on track. The weather is nicer now for exercising and DC2 is nearly old enough to take out running in her buggy.

Hi to everyone!

MazDazzle · 20/04/2019 23:47

Quick check in to say tomorrow is a FD! Now I just need to keep repeating it.

MazDazzle · 21/04/2019 00:00

Quick check in to say tomorrow is a FD! Now I just need to keep repeating it.

hoochymamgu · 21/04/2019 08:08

Happy Easter you guys Smile
Thanks BCF I will give that a try!
Waves at @blodynmawr
We welsh girls, we love our foodGrin

BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2019 09:04

Happy Easter, everyone ! Smile

Sounds a lovely relaxed day, hummus
and your reward comes with delicious homegrown veg

Well done on your b2b, Lania
Don't stress about big family meals, just drink lots of water and avoid snacking between meals

Good luck, Maz, Hoochy

Welcome back, DrWhy
I hope you are all bug-free and fit again very soon.

if you are EBF, you should start at 1000 cal FD; for partial BF, then 700

With a toddler, you can probably explain that black coffee is a grownup breakfast
However, the extra BF cals allow say a boiled or poached egg with a tomato, which you can cut up and spread around

Sugar addiction is hell and is the easiest way to pile on the lb, so cutting out sugar is a good start

Cutting out all snacks between meals will also help get cravings under control
Also, Mosely advises everyone to cut right back on even diet fizz, because it changes gut flora which can increase fat storage

For your TDEE on NFDs, best to use Mosely's TDEE Calc
He recommends that exercisers calculate with one activity level lower than they think

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DrWhy · 21/04/2019 09:38

Good luck to those doing FD Easters, I think it’s a good plan - just resist temptation completely!

Thanks for the tips BCF - DD is still fully breastfed at the moment so I like the idea of a 1000 cal FD to start with, although it seems loads! She’ll start on solids in a week or two though, basically once we are all fully recovered. It’s a good point that the extra cals would allow me to have something like a poached egg and tomato or grilled mushroom for breakfast if I needed to. I usually skip breakfast, have something v small for lunch and save most of it for dinner.

My TDEE is already done with sedentary activity! I’m really not doing much at the moment although I’m hoping to get to two classes a week soon. It’s 1750 at my current weight and 1610 at goal weight. I think I was doing 1600 during the week then slightly higher at weekends previously.

I see there are a couple of other folks here with toddlers ( hummus your day yesterday sounds pretty much what we have planned for today! I’m looking forward to it). Have you found any FD meals or even generally healthy meals they are happy to eat? Our situation is complicated by DH being pescatarian too! Despite being BLW and fed whatever we were eating from a young age DS currently seems to like broccoli, peas, sweet corn, mushroom, fruit, Baked beans, salmon, fish fingers, prawns, sausages, veggie sausages, chicken (but DH won’t eat that), grated cheese, plain rice, plain pasta, bread, toast, potato in most forms, English muffins. He tends to reject anything with a sauce at home although he eats them happily in nursery and I persist in offering them. It feels like I should be able to do something healthier with this than I do!

OohMrDarcy · 21/04/2019 14:50

Happy Easter everyone!

I've been for a 6.5 mile walk in the blazing sunshine to my sisters... the things I'll do to get to a roast I dont need to cook for myself Grin and yes I could have driven, but I fancied getting out and active rather than wasting the day!

Hope everyone is having a lovely day!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2019 14:52

DrWhy A handy FD meal is prawn & veg stirfry
You can have an extra veg side, while the others have rice (white rice is high GI and doesn't keep you full long)

My fav FD meal is grilled salmon strips with a big mixed salad, dressed with vinaigrette or balsamic vinegar
The others can have ciabatta with it - I sometimes have a little rye bread, as that's very filling and low GI for bread

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2019 14:55

That's excellent, MrD You've really taken up your walking again
Any summer charity walks you could join ?

I've also had a lovely walk along the sunny Rhine, lots of boats, dogs, everyone enjoying the sun
In the morning, we had a 90 minute spin special at the gym with barbells (lifting is in the intervals when we get off the bike)

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EssentialHummus · 21/04/2019 19:09

I see there are a couple of other folks here with toddlers ( hummus your day yesterday sounds pretty much what we have planned for today! I’m looking forward to it). Have you found any FD meals or even generally healthy meals they are happy to eat?

I’m not the one to comment because DD isn’t picky, but if I’m cooking for myself (rather than buying a ready meal) it’ll be a piece of chicken or fish, rice and veg, only I won’t have rice.

DrWhy · 21/04/2019 20:33

Thanks Essential and BigChoc that’s a good reminder. I used to do prawn (and higher calorie cashew nut) stir fries a lot but DS is often fussy about noodles and won’t eat most of the veg out of them. I could use rice instead with his though and just add things I know he’s more likely to eat. Fish and veg is also a good call. One of his favourites is a salmon ‘traybake’ slices of potato on an oven tray, part roasted then covered with veg and salmon fillets on top then back in the oven. I could have that without the potato layer dished up for me and also try a variety of other fish in a similar vein.

He’s a weird toddler, he won’t eat tomato sauce on pasta but tonight when we were offering him yet more plain food for dinner he opted for toast but then asked for Camembert with it Blush it’s no wonder I’m the size I am when my 2.5 year old is familiar with baked Camembert!

DrWhy · 21/04/2019 20:35

MrD and BigChoc sounds like you’ve been making the most of the beautiful weather. I’m glad you’ve had lovely days!

OohMrDarcy · 22/04/2019 21:04

Evening all

Back to the normal grind tomorrow, alarms set and bags packed... meh!

I shall be fasting Tuesday and Thursday this week as I'm giving blood Friday and dont think it's a good idea to do that on a FD ! Grin

Hope everyone was able to make the most of the lovely weather (assuming you had it too!) And long weekend if relevant. I'm sad the Easter holidays are over but also excited as that means summer is on its way, and I always love that time of year (hayfever and asthma dependant!)

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 22/04/2019 21:44

Yikes! All I can say is 1 word. ... carnage Shock wouldn't be surprised if I'm up half a stone after this weekend..... anyway just come on quickly to say fd tomorrow, will catch up on thread then

BigChocFrenzy · 23/04/2019 06:41

Good for you, MrD giving blood
Yes, you are absolutely right and everyone else please note:

NEVER fast on a day you give blood

Don't worry, 43 You'll soon be back on track
If you tackle holiday gain right away, it is usually easier & quicker to shift than bodyfat that's been there much longer
Also, of course, promptly resuming the WOL avoids adding more weeks of gain

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