5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

One thing I am confused about - how do I calculate how many calories I should be having on non fasting days?

Evening all

Did a checkup weigh in this morning and only showing a 1lb gain after the weekend so I'm happy with that. Back to eating well today and tomorrow is FD, at the moment I'm thinking I've actually managed really well as I can often show a 1lb gain on a Monday due to chilling more / less water drunk etc ... we shall see what the FDs bring this week!

Welcome newbies

Blossom, if i was guaranteed to hit goal in 6 weeks I'd so let a horse throw me ... I suspect it is more sensible that I take the slower route and continue learning lessons on the way.

ThenBella there is a TDEE calculator in the OP, use one activity level below what you think you should be.

@OohMrDarcy I promise you, hand on heart, you wouldn't. I know you are only joking (?), but honestly I long to feel fit and strong and pain free again. I am nearly there but still can't lift my arm above my head comfortably, laugh vigorously or take really deep breaths without discomfort.

Oh bless you blossom, it's a long road your recovery isn't it! And yes, I was joking! You've had a right old ride of it!

Welcome, bella
I recommend you try just eating at lunch and supper, so you can have more substantial meals
Don't eat between meals, except for raw veg - WITHOUT dips or sauce - it makes you hungrier

Tip:
as soon as you have finished supper, then drink a glass of water and clean your teeth - it reduces the temptation to nibble

Important fasting tip - for NFDs too: No snacking
Mosely and other fasting experts agree on this

Even "healthy" snacks - like fruit or dipping veg - keep insulin raised,
increase overall hunger and reduce the time in which your body can burn fat.
(And the most common / tempting NFD snacks are not even healthy)

Also, human studies show that most people consume more calories in a 24-hour period if they snack,
because the reduction in meal size (if any) is usually less than the calories contained in all the snacks.

On NFDs

try to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

• NHS alcohol limits,
• NEVER snack / graze between meals,
• have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
• lots of water & veg
• cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

If you want to monitor NFD calories, then use Mosely's calculator: Calc TDEE as a rough target
If you are a regular exerciser, then Mosely recommends using one activity level lower than you think.

TDEE is how you allow for exercise calories, so do not add back calories from gadgets

Important: on FDs, there is no extra allowance for exercise

Hi everyone,

Delighted with how my Easter egg hunt went on Sunday. I made soup, salad and sandwiches for everyone. Managed to avoid dessert completely and had 2 tiny chocolate eggs. It’s a miracle!

Managing to stick to all of my targets, though my toddler is doing his best to sabotage any plans of a good night’s sleep!

Welcome to all of the new faces on the thread!

Well done to everyone who has fasted today.

welcome bella and good luck, just keep telling yourself you can have it whatever the craving is tomorrow

seriously just like bcf and her tuna tip, I often have soup with added chicken or turkey slices chopped in as its much more filling

oh blossom you really have had a truly awful time but you are making a strong recovery and hopefully it'll all be a distant memory soon

that's fab mrd so it looks like you are on track for another loss this week

that's eggcellent maz (sorry for the Easter pun!) well done on resisting all the choc goodness, hope you get to nap today

FD here and if I get through today without succumbing to wine I'll be amazed as its just one of those days I feel - train shortformed again so standing all the way to work, then top comes off subway salad and spills in my bag, grrrrrrr, then get to the office and trip over the bloody carpet thing that's come loose! Today is not going to break me

At the end of a FD here, just had my first meal at 530 pm; it wasn’t too bad as far as FDs go. I always find I’m really hungry at 9am and again about 2pm but it passes quickly. Active day so that helps. I’ve had some brown rice, lamb casserole (less than I’d have liked) and broccoli. I worked out from the weight of the lamb that I’m under 500 but I also had a few coffees with almond milk and some 19cal miso soup during the day.

Good luck 43 and other Tuesday fasters. 43, you can have some wine tomorrow

Well done on enjoying an Easter egg hunt so sensibly, Maz
I'm sure everyone appreciated your hard work too

Stay focused and good luck on your FD, 43
Avoid any alcohol, because that stops it being a fast, even if you keep within calorie limit

Visualise how chuffed you'll feel tonight, after you've nailed a good FD and cleaned your teeth
Remember our FD mantra: "I can have it tomorrow"

Well done, surprised and all the other Monday fasters
That's a good healthy menu and quite filling for the calories

Now drink a glass of water and clean your teeth, to firmly close the kitchen
You can chant the mantra with 43

well done nolonger

I'm not going to have any wine today, and never on a fd bcf
I might have to do another b2b though as my plans for thursday might be changing, hmmmmm, two weeks on the trot potentially!!

Hi all, and well done all FDers. Quacking Really good to hear about your experience with maintenance. Yes, it’s a bit of a mental shift. I’m also wondering if I’ve set my goal weight correctly. I’m happy at current weight, but when I look at ideal body weight calculators, many suggest about 1 or 2kg even lower. I think I’ll keep my Monday FD @ 800, and then maybe a mini FD over the weekend. I think where I will have to be careful is chocolate. I often have a square of dark choc after a meal, as my ‘treat’, but am finding it harder to keep to just one….

I also like the idea of other, exercise based goals. I should probably MFP at least one of my NFDs on a regular basis in order to keep a hold on my calorie needs and ensure they don’t creep up. That’s my current maintenance plan, I guess.

Interesting to read of your experience with losing weight and BFing nolonger - very similar to me. And the wine intake too. A good warning to be aware of how one metabolises, and how this can affect your fat loss.

Congrats on your anniversary, 43! Sounds lovely. It does sound like you’re losing inches. I often find my clothes feel looser before the scales seem to budge. So, it sounds like a loss is on its way.

Amazing NSVs Lania! It feels SO satisfying to lose those inches and feel the bagginess of clothes.

Welcome seriously and ThenBella! This is such a supportive group with SO much information. (NB, love the Dogger reference, ThenBella…. That is a Very Important Book in our house, though has a trigger warning now, after my DD lost her special soft toy WITHOUT the reunion). I have found 5:2 a really revolutionary way to think about food and weight loss. But I think it’s normal to find fasting quite hard going at first. It is all a bit intense initially, and new, but quickly becomes much easier, and your body really adjusts. I quite like the clarity of FDs now, and don’t find myself craving carbs much at all, even on NFDs.

Well done on the Easter will power, Maz! And, wah, so sorry to hear things are physically rough Blossom. Your SV is great, but I know it’s likely to be only a small consolation in face of feeling fragile and far from one’s usual robust self.

I fasted on Monday, but might aim for a mini tomorrow. Any of those on maintenance – how high above your goal weight did you set your upper limit? Ie how much variation do you allow yourself before reining back in with a vengeance?

Morning all

Checking in for my Tuesday FD, high 5 to 43 - your day WILL turn around and be amazing, I know this because you WON'T let a stupid train and subway lid make you give up on what you are working for, so not worth it!

Beef casserole in the slow cooker for us today, so I can have a plentiful portion without the carb sides for around 300 cals, leaving me spare for milk in tea and something else if needed.

Checking in for a FD - I’ve done three minis over the last 7 days but need a “proper” FD - I’m staying with my sister and BiL for a few days and have forewarned them no breakfast and very light lunch indeed (soup I hope) and then supper she said will be fish and veg. On the upside they tend to eat lowish carb (the only other WOE that has also worked for me in the past) so at least that helps a bit.

Good luck any fellow fasters!

I’m also wondering if I’ve set my goal weight correctly. I’m happy at current weight, but when I look at ideal body weight calculators, many suggest about 1 or 2kg even lower.

fiddle It’s hard to know where to end up, isn’t it? I think I have a body shape that’s forgiving of some weight gain; I’m 5 foot 7 and have longish legs and a small waist and smallish boobs and any extra seems to sit proportionately on my frame. I start to look like my normal self from around 69 kg but I’ve decided to aim for 64.

Pre DC I was 60-62 and I’ve gone back to 62kg after each pregnancy but I have had to work hard to stay there and it hasn’t been sustainable. 64kg has always been my “usual” weight, the gradual gain over the last few years notwithstanding.

I wish I’d taken before pics now because I’ve lost nearly 10kg but I don’t feel that different. I’m worried that in the same way that I became overweight and didn’t notice that I’ll become a bit scrawny and won’t notice either!

Good luck to all the Tuesday fasters. It’s 9pm now and mine is pretty much over. Contemplating a green tea but only if DH makes it for me (I’m finishing a thriller).

Well done no on your FD, hope you got your green tea! I'm fasting with you MrD, spotty, day 2 of my b2b. Weighed in this morning and was up a bit since last Monday, which is expected given the cheese week I've had. Just had a veg and chicken stir fry for lunch with a bit of brown rice, and that's hopefully me done for today other than coffee if I'm flagging.

Kitchen closed on a successful FD. just under 500 I suspect today. Plenty of water drunk too.

How you doing fellow fasters?

Well done mrd. All ok here, DD is still up but I may have a rice cake or something after she’s down. DH has helpfully come home with a peace offering after a row yesterday... Krispy Kreme doughnuts . Now to try not have another argument about that! I’ll have one with my lunch tomorrow.

Day 1 of b2b done, well done all the other fasters. Essential I quickly saw your other thread but got waylaid and forgot to post to say i hope your dd is okay?

Hello all!! I'm back! It's been a funny old time at Hoyle Heights... DDog was terribly poorly last Tues and had to rush him to vet hospital then had a week away.booked with a girlfriend whose dad just died so as soon as DDog was on the path to recovery, I joined her but have cut short my trip and come home to continue his rehab. So fasting has been the LAST thing on my mind!

So. Back on it tomorrow, scales will be terrifying but it's a necessary evil. I'm pledging here for accountability!

She's fine 43, thank you for remembering - she's got blisters on her arms but is jolly and well in herself thank goodness (for the sake of everyone else, she was away with DH this past week and pulled a hot tea over herself).

harriet that all sounds very difficult, but I'm glad DDog is on the mend. I hope you got to enjoy some of the trip at least.

I did @essential thank you but am very pleased to be back with the doglets, both of whom were thrilled to see me this morning glad to hear your daughter has recovered x

Fast over - not completely successful at I think about 650 though I can’t shove my sister out of the way to weigh everything she puts on my plate. I’ll skip breakfast tomorrow and see if I can make it a B2B but there really is no guest duller than a dieter. That said, I have sworn blind I can eat normally again for Easter Sunday and all weekend - realistically my next FD will be Tuesday I think.

Hopefully tomorrow can work anyway!

Well done on your FD, MrD, spotty, hummus, 43 and all the other Tuesday fasters

Spotty Most people take a break from fasting over Easter & Christmas
The main thing before any break is to decide on your next FD, which you have done
Tuesday is fine

Welcome back, Harriet

fiddle, surprised Ideal Weight

It's very individual, but if you think you are at your ideal weight, then you probably are .....
IF you are within healthy BMI and weight / height is less than 0.5

If you are not sure what goal to set, then these links from the OP can help decide:

Body Frame Size & Theoretical goal: Calc Ideal Weight Range

Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

< oops typo > WAIST / height is less than 0.5
where waist for women is at the narrowest point, usually about 2" above the navel
For men, it is on the navel

Welcome back *harrie’. Good luck!

It sounds like you’ve done well under the corcumstnaces spotty. And you’re definitely right, no one likes a diet bore!

Fast day for me today. Working at 5pm, so I think I’ll have to have my FD meal before I go, as it’ll be after midnight by the time I’m finished. Did a kettlebells class this morning. I’ve noticed I’m slimmer round my middle already and it’s not even been a week since I got back on the fasting wagon. Thankfully, I’m working most of the weekend, so there’ll be no Easter weekend temptations for me!