5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Welcome back, hoochy
You'll soon be back in the fasting swing and on your way back to goal

This time, you know you need to stick to a maintenance plan, see details upthread

If sometimes you feel tired of fasting during maintenance, it's fine to take a 2 or 3 week break
Just stick to the 5:2 healthy habits, especially NHS alcohol limits and no snacking

oh and maintenance FDs of 800 work for most folk and / or 6:1

Nolonger - I’m (not currently) but was quite happily maintaining for a year on 6:1 @ 800 but with a mini FD @ 1000 and the majority of the time that was enough. If I had a big meal out I would do 2 maintenance days. But I found it was a bit random in that I eat a lot of the same meals weekly, some weeks you gain some you loose some you stay the same. I’ve only slipped under my target 3 times in the whole year tho. Try 800 and see what works for. I weigh daily and when I hit maintenance I kept a food diary so I could see what food works for me.

43 - How did your B2B go.

Roussillon - For snacks I used to go for high protein snacks like boiled eggs ham or a small slice of cheese or even some chicken breast slices.

BCF thanks so much for the tips and video. I want to make sure I’m sensible about it. I asked DH and he said just grip the dumbbells with your feet. Yeah I can see that ending well, he knows I’m a clumsy mare.

Maz - You can do it, a few days and it will become normal again. Drinking plenty is such a important target.

Darcy - Congratulations on your FD and SV, that’s a fantastic loss.

43 - Are you 10lbs to your target? Some weeks it can be so so slow but honestly you just gotta keep going. As much as it’s disheartening it will come off eventually usually when you least expect it. I also lost 0 from my B2B and was left scratching my head to why. Just keep going and it will come I promise.

Fiddle Congratulations for your target on your birthday. I found it mentally quite tough to go from loosing to maintenance as it was such a big part of my life for about 2 years. I found writing targets each month to work towards really helped some were excersize based goals so I almost shifted my focus to that.

Hoochy - Good to see you back. Well done on biting the bullet with the B2Bs. You will be back into it in no time.

Happy dance for me today after not loosing anything on my B2B I lost yesterday after a sensible dinner. 7lbs down now so first part of target ticked off. Now 5.8 to go. Holiday for June booked so that’s the motivation I need.

Well done on your SV, duck
you did really well to keep your cool and your focus after the b2b
We've seen before that sometimes one has a "delayed" loss after FDs

Is your DH kidding ?
imo, trying dumbbells with your feet is a recipe for an accident unless you are a contortionist or a monkey

I strongly recommend putting a barbell on your shoulders, the conventional way. That also works your back.
Or if you don't have a barbell, then grip a dumbbell in each hand

43 That's an example of what I posted to reassure you:
duck had zero loss the day after a b2b,but she stayed focused, had a sensible NFD and then showed a loss the following day

Thanks quacking. I think my last 2kg will happen slowly but it’s good to know that maintenance for a year can be achieved easily.

43 this is the first time I’ve done 5:2 but before that I’ve lost reasonable amounts of weight X4 after having children. How many nights a week are you drinking alcohol? After birth exercise and breastfeeding helped with initial weight loss but I found I didn’t consistently lose the rest unless I limited my wine drinking to 2 nights a week. (I don’t drink when pregnant but have no issue with a bit when breastfeeding, the baby gets essentially no alcohol and I breastfeed for a long time). Even one small glass on most nights stopped me losing and I have stuck to alcohol only on a Friday/Saturday night since. For me it’s not as simple as factoring in the calories or units, I would never even be close to 14 units/week, but if my body is metabolising alcohol it doesn’t seem to be also able to work on losing fat.

Just a quick check in. Finished my shift and instead of wine, snacks and screen time, I’m having fruit tea and a chapter of my book before bed. At work I didn’t have my usual couple of cans of diet fizzy drink, I just had water.

Tomorrow I’m having friends round for lunch and an Easter egg hunt, so I need to focus on staying in control after a good couple of days. I think it’s better to avoid chocolate tomorrow completely, as I don’t do moderation!

Well done, Maz

Thanks BCF, I'm surprised I didn't put more back on
Quacking- well done! It was buying a summer dress a few weeks ago that made me want to start this again.
Maz that sounds brilliant. Distraction and non food treats work well, I have a really good book on the go atm enjoy your Easter egg hunt today.
All ready for my b2b on Monday and Tuesday. I'm busy in work so that's a help but it will help if I plan...

Evening all

Had a fab weekend away with the DC and wider family... was good with food- but there was wine consumed and over the NHS limits. I'm not too worried, definitely learned lessons and drank less than previously with those family members, plus at dinner I only had one glass with lots of water so kept a reasonable amount of control there.

Today has been a chill day after the long day / late night and tomorrow back to normal. Out for an easter egg trail with the DC and friends with a picnic (packing our own). Tuesday will be my next FD and concentrating on plenty of water until then.

Popping on to ask all you geniuses a question.

If I eat protein for breakfast I am fine. Usually a natural yoghurt or eggs.

If I eat a bowl of cereal or toast (not sugary, could be porridge or bran flakes, brown bread and marmite), by lunch time I get very faint, sweaty and trembly until I eat protein.

If I eat nothing, like on a fast day, I don't get this at all.

Is this my body reacting to a boost in carbs and then a slump from them?

blossom I'd think it's exactly that.

Checking in for a Monday fast/hopefully a b2b. My last FDs were Sunday and last Monday, and then it was a full-on week of work combined with DH and DD being away - which meant an odd eating pattern as I ate my favourite meals, some junk, and various breads/cheeses/curry etc as part of the festival I was working on (ended with a bang last night!). So we'll see how the scales play out. Overall I felt that I was able to enjoy myself but in moderation and I still don't tend to drink very much, which helps. Though prepping and serving dozens of plates of fresh bread and cheese...

Good luck hoochy and any other Monday fasters.

morning everyone, hope you all had good weekends
I had an amazing anniversary meal and drinks with DH, its so nice to have a night out with him now and again, to re-connect.

Welcome back hoochy and good luck, you've not put on too much considering and will have that off in no time.

Yes quacking 10lbs to goal, but it is so slow although already today I've had 2 people at work saying it looks like I've lost more weight even though the scales didn't bloody move, maybe I will catch up at some point. Its good to know (you know what I mean) that you had no loss straight after but it was delayed slightly. You've not got a lot to lose now have you then back on maintenance?? And that holiday is all the motivation you need

Fab avoidance NSV maz

nolonger it really depends on the week and what I've got on, but i do love wine and know I need to cut back.

Hmmm lamb that is odd, I'm sure bcf will have a reason / answer for you....

So first day of eating to goal tdee and its only 50cals less than normal - is that right? FDs planned for tues and thurs this week

Have a great day everyone

oh essential it sounds like you've managed a tricky time quite well..... my idea of heaven would be plates of bread and cheese and

43 the bread and cheese guy who we work with very kindly donated a ^4kg* wheel of brie - I'd never seen anything like it! At one point my fridge had about 15kg of cheese in .

Hi everyone, I haven't been around much but I'm still going!

I'm doing a mixture of 2 & 3 fast days a week and vary between TDEE at goal & current TDEE on NFDs. I had a horrible IBS flare which set me back - I was being gung-ho with my diet, fasting really helps but I had way too many pulses & veg and was really unwell. After a couple of weeks of plain rice & fish I'm cautiously reintroducing more normal food.

Anyway! I'm still scale dodging but have some NSVs to share:

• averaging 13000 steps a day for the year (I was lucky to get 2000 last year)
• my 15 minute brisk walk which knackered me has turned into a 5 x 5k walk/runs a week
• yoga most days - I can get up out of a chair without yelping now
• I've lost 6.5 inches around my waist - still 4 inches to get into healthy
• my size 16 non stretch proper jeans are loose

I am so just much happier.

I am losing weight more slowly than the last time I did IF though - I'm 44 now & it's a bit of a bummer!

mmmm essential that's the kind of guy I'd want as my best friend

lania your IBS flare up sounds awful but glad to hear you are over it now and fab NSVs and although the numbers might be slower to shift it looks like you are loosing fat especially from your waist though, that's fab.

Happy weekend anniversary, 43
Unlike some diets, this WOE fits in with occasional feasts, so we can have a break and relax properly, within a fasting week.

For the average week, to help loss, try to stay within NHS alcohol limits of about 2 units each NFD

Fab inches NSV, Lania and well done on all the 5ks
These changes will really help your shape and your health markers too.

Fasting helps IBS and has actually stopped all syptoms for some 5:2ers, but try to be a bit more careful about pulses and fibrous veg
So I expect you can build them up gradually again

Hummus all that lovely cheese < yum > !

If you ate a lot of bread, you may have a fair bit of retained water and undigested food
but the next FD should take care of that

Blossom Those high GI breakfasts contain a lot of carbs, which would raise insulin a lot, even though not as much as very sugary foods.
As your body burns the carbs for fuel, your insulin levels drop to below where they were before
Hence you feel weak and hungry

Protein breakfasts, e.g. eggs, normally have fewer carbs in the accompaniments and anyway the protein & fat would lower the overall GI

So, on the days you have breakfast, make it protein-based
Better to save cereal for pud (small portion) after lunch or dinner

Some people are more affected by carbs than others.
However, insulin resistance - producing ever higher amounts of insulin when you eat carbs -
is something that typically increases with age an especially for women in the peri / meno phase

Hi all,

Can I join in please?

I did 5:2 years ago and lost weight but didn't maintain, now today I'm having my first fast day in years.

Are they any very low calorie foods I can eat? Like some thing small I can eat at my desk? I'm going to have soup soon for lunch but I'm hungry

Thanks BCF.

Despite eating loads I seem to be maintaining at my low happy weight of 8 6 with no fasting. Not complaining but I am a bit surprised!!

@seriouslylong hard boiled eggs, carrots and celery, miso soup....

Welcome, seriouslylong 🙂
This time, once you reach goal, you know you need a maintenance plan, see upthread for suggestions
Almost everyone needs a definite plan, or they fall back into the old ways that put on the weight

A couple of boiled eggs can be a meal, especially if you add some salad, or grilled tomato & mushrooms

With soup, I sometimes mix in a tin of tuna (in brine, not oil) because the protein makes it more filling - tuna is very low cal protein.
or I add some drained kidney beans

If you can't hold out until your next meal and need something to munch, then raw veg like carrots / celerie / cucumber / broccoli is very low cal - do NOT add dip or sauce, as they are usually calorie bombs.

Blossom You may not be consuming as many calories as you think, if you are eating more nutritious food than before to support your recovery,
no junk, no booze - or other calorie bombs like deep-fried food, pizza, takeaways etc
A big plate of lean protein, masses of veg and some brown rice will keep you full a long time, but isn't calorie dense.

Or it could even be that knitting all those broken bones together is burning extra fuel (but breaking several bones is not a recommended weight loss method !)

Hello! Can I join? Have started 5:2 today with my first FD. So far, I’ve had the strawberry smoothie from MM’s book, two slices of Parma ham and a handful of raw spinach for lunch, and have just snacked on some cucumber and raw carrot with 50g hummous. Also a couple of black coffees with 1 stevia sweetener per cup. MFP tells me that takes me to 353 cals, so another 150 to play with before bed!

I have a yoga class later, so am going to try the Vietnamese pho from MM’s book for tea before I go. I will admit to being v hungry though - am craving carbs and found it very difficult not to snatch my dd’s ham roll out of her hands at lunchtime😂

Any tips, inspiring success stories and advice for the longer term all gratefully received!

Ha ha no definitely do NOT recommend it BCF. Managed to put my back out last week as well to cap it all off.

Hopefully on the mend now but taking things easy, just walking for exercise, about an hour, 5/6 days a week.

Hmm maybe I am just less hungry as not gymming and swimming and eating less overall. I don't eat takeaways or fast food or calorie stuff anyway.