5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Hello. Could I ask for advice on low calorie savoury snacks? I find that in the evening, and sometimes afternoon, too, depending on the day, I really crave extra bits, and end up giving in to a handful of nuts or tortilla chips, or a falafel, and really increasing my calorie intake.

In general I need to eat a few times during the day - I am not one of those people who can hold off and have a 500-calorie dinner. So I normally have a protein pot at 12ish (120-150), popcorn, prunes and a diet fizzy drink at 3ish (100-odd), a Soulful Food-style one pot meal at 6ish (250-300), and it's between then and bedtime that I
often cave in.

I am after both lo-cal snack ideas and ideas on how to shave calories from what I already eat so that I can fit in those snacks. Minimum cooking too, if possible - I find cooking depressing when I'm fasting and I often fast on long work days to stay distracted by busyness.

All advice gratefully received.

Morning all

FD for me again - waves to 43

Work still crazy, so glad to be handing over at the end of today so someone else can deal with it for a week!

Rouss - I'd be looking at things like raw carrot to munch on - takes ages to eat so occupies the mind, little to no cals, but plenty of munching to make you feel better!

Well done on your dress NSV, 43
and enjoy your new kitchen

Congratulations on your SV, surprised

When you get to goal weight, keep your current WOE for 1-2 weeks, just to make sure it's stable
If so, you can start maintenance - which is NOT the old WOE, since that is what put the weight on

Maintenance
Try 6:1 for 3 weeks - you need that long to test it - and see if you maintain
Some people still lose on that and need to go to 13:1 (FD every 2 weeks), whereas others prefer 2 x 800 FDs, so they can eat over TDEE during the other 5 days

Just tweak your system until you maintain in a way that suits you

For all maintainers, whether you still have FDs or not:

• Daily 12:12, i.e. extend the overnight fast to 12 hours, e.g. 8pm to 8am
• Weigh regularly, at least weekly If you exceed Happy Range, return immediately to full 5:2
• NO snacks or grazing, ever
• Keep within NHS alcohol limits
• Keep sweet / junky / alcohol treats to sensible amounts, total at most 20% of weekly calories
• Drink lots of water and restrict drinks with added sugar or sweeteners
• Eat lots of veg of different colours, but no more than 2 portions fruit daily
• Regularly include beans, lentils, peas, plain yoghurt, nuts / seeds.
• Have breaks from fasting during vacations, but keep good habits and before you start, note in your calendar the day you will return to plan and have your next FD.

Roussilon From Mosely's research, he recommends:

• NO grazing / NO snacking between meals: it keeps insulin raised all day, which hinders fat-burning, increases hunger and total daily intake

Instead, eat 3 meals for 800 cals on FDs
with 4 larger meals on NFDs - increase protein in NFD meals to stay full, add cold-pressed olive oil
For both FDs and NFDs, also increase the number of veg portions in your meals.

If you are desperate to nibble, munch on RAW celery / carrots / cucumber, NO dip or sauce
They are very low cal and take a lot of chewing (don't grate or chop them finely)

• Cut out / cut back on diet fizzy drinks
  The artificial sweeteners over time change the gut flora so that the body stores more fat
  They also raise insulin for many people

• Cut out dried fruit, like prunes, raisins - also fruit juice - because the concentrated sugar also spikes insulin
  Instead, eat whole fruit, no more than 2 portions per day
  On FDs, you'll probably stay fuller with more protein and no more than 1 portion fruit.

Duck For legs:
I suggest you warm up with bodyweight squats and lunges, as deep as you can without straining / hurting your knees

If you fancy a video, then
JM Killer Bum & thighs
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jmDFer-LrVI

You can add some sets where you put weights on a barbell, which then goes onto your shoulders,
then do:
squats - narrow & wide
lunges
deadlifts
calf raises

If you have a step, then do stepups with the barbell too

End your workout with a relaxing 20 minute walk
This is to help the fat you just released get burned rather than stored again,
i.e. increase beta oxidation, not just lipolysis.

Thank you. All advice noted.

Thanks bigchoc. I predict it’ll take 2 months or so to get rid of the last 2kg but it’s good to have a plan for maintenance.

I’ve been purposefully doing “normal” things for me including a few glasses of wine a few times/week and sweets such as ice cream at the movies and I’m pleased to still be losing so this WOE is easily sustainable long term.

I have noticed that my attitude towards snacking has changed - I used to get worried when I was hungry between meals and look for food but now I know that I’ll be fine and can easily wait a while.

Thanks for the advice BC and quacking. You made me chuckle at ‘mini-egg season’ Earslaps.

I go away for the weekend in a fortnight and I’d really like to have lost the bloat by then.

Started the day with a list of targets (more water, no snacks, no wine, no fizzy drinks, no junk, more sleep).

Good luck darcy and 43. I’m fasting today too. First time in a while. I hope I don’t forget and accidentally eat something!

Those targets should get you back in the fasting, fat-burning swing, Maz

How are you getting on with your list of targets maz

How's my fasting buddy mrd got on

B2b done.... don't think I'd chose to do it too often but I had no alternative this week and I've managed it, soooo looking forward to my night out tomorrow

Successful FD complete once more, kitchen closed on 520 and I'm super happy with today's NSV of a new size 16 jacket from good old sainsburys 🎉

Well done 43, rocked it again I see!

Fab nsv mrd and well done on the fd.

Well done to my fellow fasters 43 and darcy. Day 2 of being back on track and I’ve stuck to all of my targets. Just the early bed to go! Now all I need to do is stay on this wagon.

Well done on your FD, 43, MrD, Maz
and on sticking to your targets, Maz

You totally nailed your b2b, 43

That's a great clothes NSV, MrD

Morning all, 2lb loss this week! Taking my total to 2st 3.2lb - and that includes a curry out! I'm definitely learning! Didn't fancy naan bread this time, I think my taste buds are definitely changing again like they did first time around.

Well done for rocking your FD too Maz!

Good luck to anyone else weighing in today.

Well done mrd that's a fantastic sv and eating nsv

I am baffled as I've stayed the same again, how is that even possible after a b2b I need your help bcf how am I ever going to get this last 10lbs off. Starting to get a bit disheartened now that I'll never get to some kind of goal!

Anyway, moan over.... have a great weekend everyone

Hi all! Checking in after quite a long absence - a couple of busy weeks here with my birthday plus DH's extra work commitments, and a weekend away in the mix. Will look forward to reading and catching up with everyone's news and achievements!

My update: I was pretty stoked to reach my goal weight on the morning of my birthday! I cut loose that day, with ZERO restrictions and total treat allowance. Also had a lovely 9-course degustation dinner (with wine matches) at the weekend. But managed to fit in some FDs around this, even while away with DH's snack-focused family. And um, I actually dropped under goal weight this week.

I think my challenge is going to be maintenance. I'm sort of in a 'losing' mentality at the moment, and am finding it quite easy to be quite spartan even on NFDs. But, I don't think that approach is a good idea long-term, obviously. My goal over next couple of weeks will be finding the sweet spot and focusing on sustainability - one key that is still missing is the exercise routine. So, really grateful for the timely advice I see you've posted on maintenance, BigChoc.

Going to read back through and catch up now!

Congratulations on your Sv, MrD
Your curry NSV shows the changed habits that helped this along

That's tough, 43 Let's put our thinking caps on:

• Are you already within healthy BMI ? If so, loss can be very slow for some people You may have actually lost ½ lb or more, but this has been disguised by a blip as your weight naturally varies day to day.

It may be that you see a loss tomorrow IFF you stay within TDEE today

• I recommend you do mfp for a full week, actually weighing & measuring not guessing include any nibbles that you may have - but shouldn't - while prepping food, watching screens, or socialising

Check your TDEE with Mosely's TDEE Calc
He recommends that exercisers calculate with one activity level lower than they think

Then calculate your weekly calorie deficit

mfp will also show the amount of sugar and the alcohol calories

Many people with a weight problem are sensitive not just to how many but also what type of calories
Too much junk and / or booze can hinder fat-burning for a large part of the week

• Do you eat back exercise calories ?

This is OK on NFDs if you do so via TDEE, but do NOT use gadgets or machines to do so

• they can significantly over-estimate calories burned

Never eat back calories on FDs
There is no allowance on those days

Congratulations on reaching goal, fiddle
and with such brilliant timing on your birthday !

For maintenance , you need the permanent daily habits I listed - weighing can be weekly if you prefer -
and most people need additionally some sort of fasting system, e.g 6:1

Plan breaks for vacations, but also your 1st FD back to remove immediately any regain

Do keep at least daily 12:12, because research shows it helps longterm health, especially insulin metabolism and hence is also a good weight nudge

The main thing is to have a definite plan, not just good intentions, otherwise it's too easy to slip back in to your old WOE
Our maintenance mantra:

If you return to your old WOE, you'll return to your old weight & waist

Congratulations fiddle and good luck with maintenance

Thanks for the suggestions bcf at the moment I am 44years old, 5 ft 7 in and weigh 11st 10lb so I make that as bmi or 25.7, 11 st 5lb would put me at 24.9.

I am fond of a tipple so I could be stricter with this and unless I am super busy I pretty much mfp. I eat pretty low carb most of the time too. Tdee is about 1700 so should I try eating to goal tdee?

I have been at this weight for so much of my adult life and have never really been able to get lower than about 11st 7 that I'm just getting peeved now. I walk to and from train station every day (about 30mins), walk the dog and do pilates once a week so no I don't eat back any exercise calories as I don't do enough!!!

Today is definitely not going to be a tdee kind of day as having anniversary meal and drinks but I haven't eaten yet since finishing b2b yesterday and planning to save most of my calories for later (will have soup or a salad for lunch)

So my plan is to start eating to goal tdee, cut booze a bit and try and fit in a bit more exercise and see what happens. Wish me luck

Well done fiddle! (And belated happy bday!)

Oh and I never eat breakfast so naturally do about 16 hours from last meal..... grrrr

Sounds a good plan, 43

especially keep the alcohol to NHS guidelines, including the daily 2 units and the 14 weekly total
Alcohol stops fat-burning for several hours, unti your liver has finished processing all the toxic byproducts,
so it can be a roadblock to fat loss.

Useful calculator units ( & cals):
https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/understand-your-drinking/unit-calculator

2 x 175 ml glasses wine is 2.3 units, so that's a useful daily maximum

Hello lovely fasters
Can I return please? Had a great time last year and dropped from 11 stone to 10.3 back in September. I am 5 feet 6. Just weighed myself last week and am back to 11 again . I didn't do maintenance
So, last two weeks did b2b on two of my working days and felt so much better for it. When I stopped in September it was due to feeling tired and faint, even with a bovril drink..looking back I probably wasn't eating enough and should have just done one fast day a week.
But. I've remembered all your wise advice BCF, and am not overeating on NFD's and getting in some swimming for the bingo wings
Lovely to read your post 43, you have done well and kept going. Unlike moi