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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Earslaps · 08/04/2019 09:44

FD here too. Not sure how successful I'll be as it's school holidays, which always makes it a little trickier! If I find it too tough to fast I might just switch to 16:8 during the school holidays then back to 5:2 afterwards.

Still did the 6.30am spin class, keeping up the exercise habit should keep me sane whilst the DC are home! Today we're planning on tidying the playroom and then going to Clip n Climb (a fun climbing wall place).

Dinner tonight will be smoked basa fillets with poached egg and wilted spinach. Will probably have a small salad at lunchtime, maybe with some prawns, so that I can eat with the DC.

Good luck to all other fasters.

OohMrDarcy · 08/04/2019 09:49

morning all

welcome back duck - sounds like you are ready to knock that gain back again!

NFD for me - knackered after the weekend. Kids are with their dad this week so I'm taking the opportunity to redecorate DS' room - New bed / decor / paint etc. Did the painting / trip to ikea / built the bed over the weekend - plus work went crap and I was up all night on conference calls.

On the good side thats the hard stuff pretty much done now I think, so just the fun bits to go - wall stickers / curtains / spray painting wardrobe doors so they match the new theme (currently bright green!)

Fasting tomorrow and Friday this week whilst they are gone I think.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 10:24

You'll nail them, 43
Being able to switch around FDs to fit our life is what makes this WOE sustainable

How did your Sunday FD go Hummus
Are you completing the b2b today ?

ClipNClimb sounds great fun for everyone, earslaps
Exercise without noticing it

Your redecorating & revamping always sound so impressive, MrD
You are obviously handy at DIY

Careful of your back today, though !

OP posts:
JcHcks · 08/04/2019 10:28

Hi everyone just popping in to ask a quick question. Last few weeks I've been so bad at the weekends I've been putting on what I've lost! I've gotten into the habit of weighing daily so I've weighed today and gained 2 pains. I've added all my calories for last week though and I'm still under where I should be for the week so in theory I still should of lost. Why is it I've gained, is it just cause I've weighed myself after two bad days? I'm worried I'm going to go round in circles. It's my own fault I'm eating so badly at the weekends but I'm eating a lot less during the week to make up for it. Maybe it's not working though....

nolongersurprised · 08/04/2019 10:52

jc the same thing happens to me, which is why I have stopped weighing every day! It shifts easily after the first fast day so I figure it’s just fluid. I don’t carb count but my week day food is fairly low in bread and pasta and I don’t drink alcohol. Over the weekend I don’t usually overeat but I go to the market and get fresh bread and am more likely to eat toast, sandwiches and the like. Add a few glasses of wine and I figure I start Monday morning with some added fluid.

School holiday fasts are hard! I spent some of the day baking with the kids and then made a lasagne in the evening, by which time I was ravenous. I had salmon and brown rice and broccoli instead of lasagne, but I don’t usually eat lasagne anyway. I had a few coffees but with almond milk and would probably be looking at 550 for the day except I had a bit of dark chocolate with DH just now. I felt so “normal” after my meal I forgot I was fasting Smile. Still, I’ll take the day. As earslaps says it’s harder with the kids around.

We dragged them out for a walk this afternoon which ended up further than intended - about 7km- which was lengthy for the young ones and well as being really hot, it’s still 30 degrees during the day. Although it’s about 24 degrees now and the young two have insisted on hot water bottles in bed because it’s “freezing”.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 12:38

JC If you eat a lot over TDEE at the weekends, then weighing every day - or weighing Mondays - can be depressing.

However, whenever you weigh,
if you have an overall weekly calorie deficit, then your weight over say a month should show a downward trend,
even with slow loss

If not, then you are probably overlooking something

e.g. misreading portion size as being a whole packet of something
or - if you are preT2 / very insulin resistant - you may be eating too much sugar & too many carbs
or eating back exercise calories on FDs
or have calculated TDEE wrongly for NFDs

Don't use gadgets to calculate calories burned - they can often over-estimate

Instead, for NFDs use Mosely's TDEE Calcc*
He recommends that exercisers calculate with one activity lvel lower than they think

OP posts:
MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 08/04/2019 12:54

Hello all. FD today - had a black Americano this morning and then have had two cups of herbal tea and lots of water since then. Dinner will be Mexican veggie jumble with a little bit of halloumi (thanks to hello fresh, I'm being very lazy!), but not the whole portion as that will take me well over 500kc for the day.

Must remember to try and choose at least one low-cal meal when ordering my box for the week...

EssentialHummus · 08/04/2019 13:30

Good luck today ear, bigchoc, maud. MrD I love decorating too! Easiest when the kids are away and a good project.

It's my own fault I'm eating so badly at the weekends but I'm eating a lot less during the week to make up for it. Maybe it's not working though....

I'm not an expert but you could try a weekend fast to help? Otherwise trends over time are the main thing - when I log my weight on a graph it's a zigzag, but the overall movement is down.

The rest of Sun was find bigchoc though like jc I associate weekends with snacking so that was harder. Ended up having a small evening meal (100 cal) to tide me over, but I think under 650 cals overall. And I'm just sitting down to my b2b meal of veg, chicken breast and low calorie spicy sauce. Should just be coffees from here on out. I'm off to a concert tonight so I'll need to stick to sparkling water I think. It's a gospel concert in a lovely local church with great acoustics and I can't wait!

EssentialHummus · 08/04/2019 13:31

maud have you tried Gousto? I found they had a bit more variety, especially if like me you enjoy Asian dishes.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 14:04

That sounds a lovely evening, Hummus
Good luck on the last stretch of your b2b

That sounds fine, maud
but if you want more variety / adventure on FDs, then maybe try (from the OP):
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals , Good2Know , Vegetarian , Foodie Under 200 Cals

JC When I started, I used to eat about 4000 cals of chocolate Blush - as donuts, mufins, cheescake ! - at the weekend
To zap that habit, I made Saturday a regular FD

It worked, even though now I often choose other days, I've completely stopped junk and now just have the occasional pud at a really good restaurant

OP posts:
MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 08/04/2019 14:18

Fab, thanks BCF, will check those out later.

I did give Gousto a try but found the packaging even more irritating than Hello Fresh so gave up after a few weeks Wink

Iamblossom · 08/04/2019 20:25

Checking in, hi all.

In week 6 since my accident.

Maintaining at a low happy weight of between 8 stone 8 and 8 stone 6, but feel very wobbly. Have been walking 5km a day at lunchtimes for the last 3 weeks but need to do some weights and swimming and proper cardio but am a way off all of that still, at least 6 more weeks for swimming according to physio!

Have been aiming for my sedentary tdee of 1500 or below (today for eg is around 1200) but hitting 2000ish on both weekend days, DH has been cooking some amazing food recently and I am addicted to peanuts! But being careful during the week seems to be balancing it all out. Am relieved as just thought I would pile on the weight just sitting around filling my face till the broken bits healed!!

Hope all are well, good luck to all fasters and enjoy your exercise, I am jealous!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 21:09

Blossom That's good you are able to exercise a bit more and also maintaining
Watch those nuts though - a weakness we share !

Are your broken bits still painful ?

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 08/04/2019 21:11

Collar bone pretty much fine now. Ribs hurt if I cough or sneeze! Or take very deep breaths...but deffo on the mend!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/04/2019 21:56

That's good news, blossom

I presume the horse merely stopped, while you continued in flight ?
Hence it was unscratched ..... or has it since been made into burgers ? Grin

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/04/2019 22:13

Well done Mon fasters Smile and hope you enjoyed your concert hummus

Glad to hear you are on the mend blossom and managing your weight so well considering I would have piled the weight on under those circumstances

Enjoy the decorating mrd

jc I often have a Fri fd so that I limit any potential weekend damage Blush

Nfd today and I've done really well, kept telling myself I would have a cuppa and 2 chocolate biscuits after pilates (just to get me there as so weary tonight) but just didn't want anything when I got back, result!!

I need another sensible Nfd tomorrow and weds and then it looks like b2b thurs and Fri (eek!)

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2019 00:58

Well done on realising you don't actually want the choc biscuits 43 and for not eating them just because they were available.

Often when you think you really need a junky treat or a 2nd helping, if you wait 20 - 30 mins you find you don't want it.
That's how long it takes for a message from your stomach to reach your brain, saying it's satisfied

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 09/04/2019 07:42

I was wondering how you were getting on blossom, it's so good to hear about your walks. I hope as the weather brightens and you heal you'll be able to get out more and more.

I weighed in this morning and am down 1.5 lbs since last weigh-in - 1.5kg until my goal. The concert last night was wonderful - there were a few songs that had everyone dancing in the aisles, and my smartwatch even woke up and thought I was exercising!

Good luck to any Wednesday fasters Brew.

Earslaps · 09/04/2019 08:04

Glad to hear you're recovering blossom. Well done on your SV hummus.

I'm in a similar position- I've lost 2lbs this week, and 3lbs to go until my initial target. In total I've lost 11lbs since the start of February. I can definitely see I'm leaner and the love handles are nearly gone. I feel much better without the extra weight around my middle too.

Well done to all Monday FDers and good luck Tuesday fasters.

OohMrDarcy · 09/04/2019 08:28

Morning all

Checking in for a Tuesday fd here, who's with me?
Congrats on all the lovely SVs!

Hummus- I always get loads of steps showing if I've been to a concert!

Blossom lovely to see you are recovering

43 - great biccie avoiding nsv there!

I've got a little nsv of my own that I noticed yesterday! Boobs are bigger than my tum again!!! That feels like a good one to me Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2019 09:13

Congratulations on your SVs, Hummus, earslaps
You are both close to target - don't worry if the last few lb are slower to go

What a lovely evening, hummus
beautiful music, good company and dancing in the isles

Well done on your shape NSVs, Earslaps, MrD

Good luck, MrD and any other Tuesday fasters

OP posts:
QuackingDuck1985 · 09/04/2019 11:00

Thanks BCF very wise words.

43 - Half term is a pain for fasting isn’t it.

Earslaps- Good for you for going to your spin class. Did you go on the climbing wall?

Darcy - Fab, Love a bit of DIY especially when you do it yourself.

JCHCKS- your gain is most likely retained water from the weekend. I’m a daily weigher and see all these fluctuations but have noticed if I’ve had a day or two off I will gain but I’ve also noticed that the next day as long as I’m not eating more crap just sensible that gain will disappear. It’s actually changed the way I fast as I always used to fast the day after a bit of a blow out. I now don’t as I believe I loose more with a sensible day then a FD at a later date.
May be worth trying a weekend FD, I did it as I was overeating especially on a Saturday I now fast every Saturday and that’s become my new normal.

Blossom - how are you doing in yourself? Your doing fantastic with maintaining are you having a FD during the week?

Hummus- Congratulations on your loss, and that fantastic your just 1.5kg from target.

Darcy- Awsome NSV, good luck for your FD today.

Good luck to everyone else fasting today.

MazDazzle · 09/04/2019 11:05

Hi everyone. Glad to hear you’re getting up and about Blossom.

You’re all doing so well. I wish I had your enthusiasm. My weight has rocketed lately.

I’ve not been completely committed and have been dipping in and out of 5:2. Initially, this lead to only a small gain.

My work pattern has changed, so I’m now working nights and staying up late even when I’m not working. I’m not getting enough sleep and snacking on all sorts of sugary crap. Blush

I’m a stone heavier than I was this time last year! I just can’t seem to get out of this rut.

It’s given me a boost to hear that you’ve managed to get back on track after your recent gain, duck!

Earslaps · 09/04/2019 17:33

No I didn't climb quacking, it's pretty much just children climbing there. I want to though, a bit like when I take them to the trampoline park! One of my two is such a monkey he climbed them all repeatedly! Plus he did a 'leap of faith'! The other one started a bit scared but was getting to the top of a lot of them by the end.

I accidentally ate a whole bag of mini eggs todayBlush was given them as a gift and once they were open there was no holding me back. Oh well, in the past I probably would have had at least 2-3 bags a week in mini egg season!

OohMrDarcy · 09/04/2019 20:19

FD completed successfully, early night for me tonight