5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Congratulations on your SV, Maud
and well done to MrMaud too for joining you on 5:2

Well done, 43

The MN chicken brings its own veg to a casserole

Ha ha bcf

🤣

Celery, leek, carrot, few kidney beans, small bit of potato - and a sachet of chicken casserole mix - because that is how I roll with a new recipe until I'm more confident!

Fist bump back atcha 43, 🤞 for tomorrows weigh in

Good luck mrd I'm just coming out of totm so probably not going to bother....

Hi! Thanks for taking the time to write to me! ;)

I’m being super strict, I don’t drink or eat junk food, no drinks other than water, black tea and coffee.
I’m keeping to 20-30 grams of carbs a day, which is as low as it can get really. I’m doing back to back fasts for consecutive 10-12 days. Then have 2-3 days that are NFD.

On NFD I eat a normal Mediterranean style diet, with carbs, but I don’t stuff my face.
I’m on antidepressants due to PND, but it’s hard to believe that that alone causes me to not be able to lose weight at a normal rate.
It’s so disheartening:(

I’m getting my thyroid function tested tomorrow n Monday but knowing me, it will be normal... I just can’t seem to lose weight fast enough ...

An example of what I ate today

Water
Black coffee for breakfast
Lunch: salad leaves with Greek yoghurt seasoned with pepper and salt, 100 caps of smoked salmon and 2 medium eggs. Followed by black coffee.
Dinner: purple sprout broccoli with roasted sea bream; medium apple for dessert.
That’s it!

bookish I can only recommend you mfp and weigh absolutely everything, each day, just in case you've over-looked something
e.g. People here have found they have misread a packet as being 1 portion when it was 4
or not measured nuts / nut butter / cheese, which are calorie dense

Mosely said up to 70g, preferably 50g, carbs for FDs, so you could increase your carbs a little those days, to help sustainability

• Also, check on NFDs, in case you are eating back some of the deficit then

• even on NFDs, no snacking, no alcohol, no added sugar

• If you can, keep to low carb Mediteranean on NFDs too, just up the calories to TDEE
  because currently you would be out of ketosis on those 2 NFDs, plus at least the following 2 FDs

• Use Mosely's TDEE Calcc* as it is the most accurate and set activity level there to sedentary

• If you eat back exercise calories, then STOP - that isn't allowed on FDs or fast800

• Try aiming for 2l water per day - that helps some people

If those measures don't speed things up,
then 5lb / month is just the rate at which your particular body loses on this WOE, with your meds

I agree that it is much slower than I'd expect for someone with a lot to lose on 5:2, let alone Fast800
Maybe the doctor can find something
If not, loss will mount up over the months, if you can stay patient

After 12 weeks, you could alternate FDs / NFDs, but do keep to low carb

Morning all

1lb down for me today, taking total lost to 2st 1.2lb - reasonably happy with that though it is the second week in a row of a smaller loss and still got lots to go. I will weigh again tomorrow incase it is a delayed whoosh after the FD, but if my body is holding on for a couple of weeks after 2st of losses it's not the end of the world.

I know I'm around goal TDEE every NFD at the moment, without particularly trying so confident that it will come good again soon.

43, sorry forgot about TOTM being a pain for you! My implant means I rarely get them at the moment (yes I got it renewed even though I've not has a partner for 4.5 years simply to avoid TOTM!)

Morning - well done MrD.

Same for me today 0.5 kg down this morning.

I ate like a horse yesterday, no particular event, I was just starving and ate more than I have done for weeks but I just went with it after my very tricky month.

I even fancied a drink last night (very unusual) and had a large brandy while watching Darkest Hour.

Can I ask what scales people are using please? I want to invest in some with BMI & fat % rather than use the ones at the pharmacist, so I can weigh myself naked (which would get me jailed if I did that at Boots, ha :D )
Thanks so much for your replies, especially BigChocFrenzy!!

bookish that typical day sounds okay but I'd second what bcf says re: mfp, just in the short term to double check hidden calories.

Well done on your sv mrd that's a huge total in quite a short space of time....
How very sensible of you to make that decision, I'd love not to have totm

Well done on your sv box sometimes our bodies just do that mine usually around totm but this WOL is so flexible that you can accommodate days like that

I've got 7 weeks until I have to get in a swimming costume, I need this to give me a boost of motivation to keep going and try and lose a few more pounds, just got bloody easter, wedding anniversary and birthday to deal with in that time also!!

Hope everyone has a good weekend, sun is shining here in the north west so it must be glorious with you in the Rhine bcf

Congratulations on your SVs, MrD, Box

MrD You've already lost a lot of weight quite quickly, so it is quite common after this for the body to pause further fat loss, while it consolidates and reblances, before resuming loss
You merely have had 1-2 weeks slower loss, rather than the 3 weeks+ sts of an official plateau

So you're absolutely right to just relax, stay focused and the rate should pick up again

Box Some people lose in spurts, rather than linearly, so it is not always obvious from recent intake why someone has sts or SV
You had a plateau of 67 kg, which you came through and looks like the loss is continuing
Try to stay focused on 5:2 healthy habits this weekend, so you retain the loss and can start Monday in a good place

Bookish That's good you are not ruining the reputation of these threads by naked weighing in Boots 😏

Most digital scales are pretty good
but check the upper limit that it handles, as some are a bit low
I chose scales with a large display, since I have a visual disability - Amazon has a big range for all oreferences

For fat%, check if you can find a gym with a Boditrax machine - they are accurate

imo even with good scales, fat % are not bothering with:
the results are too skewed by when you last went to the loo / showered / exercised / ate / drank etc plus added craziness

• I tested several readings on highly recommended scales and found my fat % varied by 8% within 20 minutes !

Brad Pilon - a well-known bodybuilder / faaster - found scales would record up to 22% fat, whereas he has only 12%

If you can't access Boditrax,
waist measurement is good to monitor as an indication of bodyfat,

especially the most important kind for health - visceral fat (the fat around internal organs)

For women, measure at the narrowest point, usually about 2" above the navel
Also measure hips at the widest point

For men, just measure waist, which for them is directly around the navel

Oh and as promised, here's a not particularly good photo of tattoo as trying to take it with other hand..... it will lighten a bit (hopefully)

Wow 43 - beautiful! How did you choose the design?

Thanks hummus The last tattoo I had my dh designed it but he was a bit reluctant to do this one so I just told the tattooist I wanted a black / grey rose on my bicep and he drew this.... I'm really hoping the shading lightens as there's so much detail that it's getting lost a bit, but I still love it

That's lovely, 43

gorgeous tattoo 43!

Checking in for a Sunday FD here, which will be challenging with DH at home and wanting to eat big hearty meals. I am still busy with the festival which means that my usual schedule is upside down (and my eating habits with it), so I'm hoping for FDs today and tomorrow so there's no pressure on the rest of the week. Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

Good luck on your b2b, Hummus

Remember you can have 650 cals per FD on a b2b
or, if you prefer, FD1 500 and FD2 800 etc - but variations need always more on FD2 than FD1

(anyone who normally does 800 cals on single FDs should stick to 800m oer day on b2b)

Hi everyone I hope you are all well?

Checking in after being AWOL for a few weeks, hectic and stressful couple of months. Was plodding on with maintenance for a year and took my eyes of the prize and before I knew it poof almost 11lb gain.

I've been hard at it the last two weeks and back to 5:2 with fasting @ 500 cals and have cut out all the crap and just gone back to basics to the normality back.

Will catch up tomorrow

Well done on your SV mrd and box. That’s a lovely tattoo 43.

FD today (Monday morning here). School holidays and I’m not working so I’ll get one out of the way today.

Welcome back, duck
Don't worry - a few weeks back on 5:2 and you'll shift that gain

None of us who've lost weight can go back to our old habits without regaining - because they are what put the weight on in the first place

In maintenance: (everyone)

weigh at least weekly,
5:2 healthy habits every day - especially no snacking & jeep NHS alcohol limits -
and some sort of fasting, even if it's just the daily 12:12 that Mosely, Longo & co recommend for health benefits

Good luck, duck, surprised and any other Monday fasters !
I'm fasting too
Anyone else ?

welcome back duck and you will soon have that gain off

Hope your weekend FD went well hummus

NFD today, not sure when my FDs will be this week as a bit of a difficult week as I'm off for 2 days with DS as its half term, so possibly weds and fri although it could end up being thurs and fri b2b