5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

I have finished a FD here which was fine. I was busy at work and then with picking up the kids so I didn’t really notice I was hungry till 7pm. I had two eggs this morning then a small salad, soup and half a piece of toast this evening. At work I also had some miso soup and a few coffees with skimmed milk. I ran 5km this evening and I’m feeling good. School holidays start tomorrow and we’ve taken the day off and will take the kids to the museum, might go to the movies tomorrow night with with the older two.

earslaps I think you’re a faster runner than I am! I could do a 25 minute 5km but I’d be running my hardest!

Hoping that the scales will say 66 something tomorrow, I’ve been in the low 67s for a few weeks.

nolonger, well done on your FD. How often do you run? I'm only a once a week runner as I like to mix up my exercise. I also haven't really any serious races- the only timed race I ever did was back in Sydney (pre-kids) when I did 5.6km in just under 30 minutes.

I am genuinely surprised at the improvements in my running, I'm still slightly convinced that Strava is tricking me! I know it's not completely accurate, so I might not be as fast as I think, but I'm still improving week by week. I think it is partly down to 5:2 (losing weight whilst maintaining muscle), and partly down to mixing up running with spin classes and Blaze. Blaze involves short periods of running on the treadmill- at first I was sprinting at 12km/h, now my 'easy jog' is about 11km/h.

I like to run 3-4 times a week (ideally 5 times, but that’s unrealistic) but only 4-5km at a time. My comfortable jog pace on a treadmill is 10.5 km/hr, to do 11 I have to be in the mood and feeling good. I’ve done a couple of half-marathons a few years ago but don’t feel hugely motivated to do it again, I don’t particularly love running for over an hour with the training. I am getting faster as the weight comes off as well, it’s good.

I do need to add some weight training, I’m not sure what’s putting me off. I like gyms, I’ve gone to lots of them over the years! DH has been encouraging me since I turned 40, I know it’ll be good for me.

Excellent running pb, earslaps

Many 5:2ers have reported improved running times
It makes sense when you think how top runners shave off every excess lb to reach their best
For you, I'd expect that moving less weight with the same or even better muscle power gives continuing PBs

Cross-training also boosts fitness & strength

Well done on your FD and your run, surprised
25 mins for a 5k is a very good standard

I recommend cross-training with weights, or bodyweight lifts like pressups, pullups, squats & lunges
If you get put off by lifting in the weights area, how about a pump class ?

Good luck, Hummus, earslaps and all the other Thursday fasters

Afternoon all, nice to see a busier thread here today! Well done to all the fasters!

NFD here today but Friday FD tomorrow to finish the week strong.

I better have a loss this week, spent the last 2 days shifting kit from the site we are closing down, its exhausting! Up and down stairs all day and it's like a rabbit warren too, so a 10 min walk with the kit once we've got loaded up each time

Oh, and I'm filthy!

Not very good at posting but still fasting - I am now 8.3kg down (from my last remembered weight before I started 5:2 in the new year.

FD done, around 700 cals.
Well done all other Thursday fasters

Well done blody.

I loved my FD meal- prawns in chilli and garlic with black bean spaghetti, courgetti and rocket. 360 calories and a whopping 44g of protein so mega filling. Had an apple and a square of dark chocolate to bring it to just under 500 calories.

Well done box!

That sounds really yummy ear, I love anything with garlic and chilli. Well done blody.

Just finishing my last coffee here. Had a 350 cal ready meal with a pile of broccoli around 5pm, two rice cakes, three coffees in total. Though it's TOTM so I think I'll give the scales a miss tomorrow!

Hi, people!
Newbie here, doing the Fast800. I’ve lost 5lb in 4 weeks, which is very disappointing. I can never keep to 800 calls for more than 10-12 consecutive days... where am I going wrong? I know that some medication I’m on can affect my weight, but really this is demoralising for such a strict way of life.

The Fast800 says you shouldn’t be on this first 800-cal-a-day phase for more than 12 weeks, so I’m worried!
Wish me luck, I want to keep trying!

I should also add that I have a ton of weight to lose....

bookish 5 pounds in 4 weeks sounds great to me! Some weeks you’ll likely have bigger losses but presumably it took a while to go on, there’s no rush.

Having been hoping for 66 something on the scales I’m 66.9 this morning, which will do! I don’t mind how long my last 3kg take, as long as it comes off. I am pleased to have any loss at all, given the dinners (and wine) our last week when I was away with work, but realistically most social events involve food or drink so I like how 5:2 works around that.

bigchoc I used to love pump classes. I think I stopped going to the gym due to the demands of 4 pregnancies and then 4 breastfeeding babies (not at the same time). It was much easier to go for a 3minute run and get back to feeding the baby then faff around with expressed milk for a longer gym trip. I have more time though, I should reclaim the gym again!

That should read a 30 minute run, not a 3 minute one. Although after my 4th I felt so unfit I probably only ran for about 3 minutes.

morning everyone, well done on all the weds fasts and the exercise / running pbs

Ooh mrd you'll probably have lost lots if you've been luggin stuff up and down stairs, good luck

welcome bookish you'll get lots of great advice on here, and 5lbs is a great start, are you using MFP to track your calories on your NFDs? might help you see any unsuspecting calorie bombs.... good luck

Fab SV nolonger

FD today, skinny latte to get me through to lunch (chicken salad) then soup or omelette for tea. Will be getting my second skin thing taken off my tattoo later so can hopefully post a pic

Hope everyone has a great day

FD here too 43 - fist bump to my friday FD buddy

Chicken casserole for dinner tonight - am just working out the cals on that but suspect that will be me done plus tea / water of course.

Congratulations on your SV, Box
Great progress

Congratulations on your SV too, surprised, breaking the 67kg barrier

As you only have 3kg to go, progress is bound to be much slower than most other folk

• many people lose the last few lb to goal at 1lb per month So don't worry, just relax and you'll get there at the rate your body can manage

If you can return to the gym and pump classes, that could help give you that extra boost at this stage

Well done on your FD, Blody, earslaps, hummus

Good luck, 43, MrD and any other Friday fasters

MrD I hope you've had a thorough scrubdown after your clearout, can't have grubby fingers on this thread

Welcome, bookish 🙂
That's 5 lb on your way to goal.
Many people here, starting with high BMI, have lost several stone on 5:2 or Fast800 / BSD

Some meds - e.g. some ADs & steroids - make it really difficult to lose, because they change the hormonal balance of insulin etc and may also increase hunger
However, it is possible, just takes much greater patience
Also, Mosely says you can stay on the 800 calories longer than 12 weeks, if you feel it is sustainable

Fast800 has much stricter rules than 5:2
What may be slowing your progress - mainly, are you keeping to the Fast800 rules ?

• How much you consume - 800 calories is a VLCD, so there is absolutely no room for junk or alcohol, which in any case can seriously slow down weight loss, particularly for "hard losers" - those who struggle to lose

I recommend mfp to help you see if the problem is hidden calories in certain foods,

• What you eat - The type of food is critical: Fast800 is a strict low carb diet

• it won't work nearly so well if you are consuming any

. added sugar e.g. in hot drinks, or cake, biscuits, sweets etc
. alcohol
. or starchy carbs - bread, potato, pasta, rice etc
. fruit juice or dried fruit - far too high sugar

Also, keep fruit to no more than 2 portions per day,* & only low-sugar fruit* like berries, apples, pears
Avoid banana, mango, pineapple which are high-sugar tropical fruit
If you already only have 2 fruit portions, then I suggest reducing to only 1 per day

Those high carb calories would spike insulin, which switches your body from fat-burning to fat-storage and also increases hunger

• When / how often you eat You should have 2-3 meals per day, with no calories between

So, NO snacks or grazing whatsoever, even on "healthy food"

Snacking keeps insulin raised, which hinders fat-burning and reduces hunger

Also, to ensure you get the full benefit of the overnight fast
avoid eating less than 3 hours before you go to bed

Also, Fast800 & drinks:

• Water
  Drink loads of unfavoured water - you can add ice & a slice of fruit if this helps
  Start each day with a glass and keep water with you all day

• Milk
  if you have hot drinks with milk, measure out & calorie count in advance what you decide is your allowance for the whole day
  Put this in a little pot

Unsweetened almond or cashew milk, or skimmed is much better on Fast800 than ordinary milk

remember: avoid sugar in drinks

• Fizzy drinks Except for water, Mosely recommends you AVOID fizz, even diet fizz

The sweeteners can spike insulin, which hinders fat-burning & increases hunger
They can also over time change the gut flora, so that your body tends to store more fat

Oh don't worry BigChoc - Thoroughly decontaminated here! Particularly after my minor stabbing injury (brute force worked but fought back ) Made extra sure there as last thing I need is an infected thumb!

Bookish - BigChoc is the oracle, trust what she says and you'll be losing more before you know it, fab start though - well done!

Ouch, your poor thumb, MrD
I hope you disinfected any deep wound and put a plaster on, to help avoid infection

Oh definitely, happened to be near some of that foam sanitiser stuff so put a couple of squirts straight on - hurt like hell but must have killed anything off. As soon as I got near the first aid kit I washed and plastered.

So chicken casserole is blinking amazing. Never done it before but was delicious. That's me done for the day bar a shed load more water anyway.

How you doing 43?

Well done, MrD

Evening all. I've not posted for a good while as work and Brexit have rather distracted me, but I have still been fasting and it appears I have lost about 5 lbs in a month! I'm really really chuffed with that as I haven't been too strict about TDEE on non-fast days and I had a week off as was away with work and it was just too difficult to think about fasting/calories etc as well as everything else.

So, very happy, very motivated. DP has joined me as well over the last couple of weeks. After thinking he would die on his first FD he has got into it and even said yesterday that he's quite enjoying the feeling of being 'empty' on FDs. This is a man who is a serial snacker and chocolate obsessive, so it's something of a revalation for him to realise he can manage a whole 18+ hours without food.

Now I just need to persuade myself to start using the brand-new exercise bike that has somehow appeared in the study...

Well done Maud, sounds like a fab month

Excellent progress maud

All done here too mrd what apart from chicken went in your casserole?