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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 09:11

Congratulations on your SV milestone, MrD
Now enjoy another non-food reward
It's tough losing, isn't it Wink

You don't have to be particularly skilled at exercise for it to be great for your fitness
and of course brilliant to make exercise fun and stress-free for your DC

OP posts:
SpottyDuvet · 30/03/2019 12:00

Ok - so I think it’s a 6:1 week as suggested by BCF - I had the vegetarian option at lunch and 2 squares of dairy milk, then about a 400 cal “evening meal” at 5pm and then didn’t nibble at the party so I basically had nothing but sparkling water til a piece of toast just now but I am at friends’ for dinner tonight.

Soup for lunch with some cheese and then I think Monday will be the next fast day and I think it might have to be a B2B on Tuesday as am away Weds to Sat and it will be very food based.

After next week, there’s not too much to get in the way of fasting luckily!

OohMrDarcy · 30/03/2019 12:58

Well I managed to pull a muscle in my back doing the bed 🙄 no big walk for us today... ho hum. Did get it all to the tip with the help of the kids and now resting. Meh

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 14:05

That's fine, spotty for the very occasional week, it makes no longterm difference
You can resume 5:2 properly next week

Sorry to hear that, MrD
Housework is not just boring, it is also dangerous !

20C on the Rhine
I'm going out for another walk in the glorious sunshine
So looking forward to Summer here 😀

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 30/03/2019 19:43

Was a gorgeous day here down south in England too Bigchoc, managed a very slow hobble the 1/2 mile or so to the pub to sit in the sunshine with a lime and soda and then a slow hobble back again... good to keep it mobile and all that Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2019 21:13

That's good, MrD
A nice long sleep should help the repairs, so maybe you can have a lomger walk tomorrow

  • I'd leave football for a few days, though - and changing sheets !
OP posts:
fiddletree · 31/03/2019 07:32

Hi all, haven't had time to catch up on thread news, but posting anyway, to keep me honest Grin. Had a lovely week, with DS' birthday last Wednesday, my mum here, and a wee family do on Saturday. Only managed the monday FD, but have been pretty disciplined, and think my week probably included a couple of mini FDs, as I basically tried to eat the protein/vege parts of meals, and leaving carbs. However, a few days with a few glasses of wine, and a few small treats. Am going to do a FD tomorrow, but think it will have to be a similar routine this week too, unless I do a B2B, as it's my bday Thurs and there will be a few food-related things.

I am pretty close to my goal, so I feel like this has been good training for me to aim for maintenance eating, even with special occasion stuff. The missing piece of the puzzle is definitely exercise. I am just so zonked after looking after a small chap all day, plus we're heading into winter here. I need to nail the "discipline" thing you were all talking about - as motivation is definitely at a very low ebb.

Well done on the SV MrD, and others. Sorry to hear about your plumbing disaster, BigChoc - aargh!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/03/2019 08:08

That's excellent news that you are so close to goal, fiddle
Once there, you never want to have to lose that weight again

If you are short of time & energy for exercise, ** try to add Mosely's HIIT Fat Blasts

Research shows they are surprisingly good at improving fitness and also correcting some insulin metabolism issues.

(Longterm) Maintenance:.
If you return to your old WOE, your return to your old weight & waist

  • Most folk need to keep up some form of regular fasting
    Some folk do 6:1, others do 5:2 with 800 FDs and eat back the deficit; a few just do daily 12:12 - whatever suits you

  • Weigh regularly, at least weekly
    If you exceed Happy Range, return immediately to full 5:2

  • NO snacks or grazing, ever

  • Keep within NHS alcohol limits

  • Keep sweet / junky / alcohol treats to sensible amounts, total at most 20% of weekly calories

  • Drink lots of water and restrict drinks with added sugar or sweeteners

  • Eat lots of veg of different colours, but no more than 2 portions fruit daily

  • Regularly include beans, lentils, peas, plain yoghurt, nuts / seeds.

  • Have breaks from fasting during vacations, but keep good habits
    and before you start, note in your calendar the day you will return to plan and have your next FD.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/03/2019 08:09

oops, bold went odd there ! Blush

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/03/2019 11:11

I had a lovely Rhine walk in baking sunshine already, so a T & shorts day 😀

I'm off to the gym now to 🏋🏽‍♀️

Happy Mothers Day ! 💐 🥁 🍹

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/04/2019 09:17

ooh how lovely bcf hope you enjoyed the sunshine, we could do with some of that here Smile

Well done on your SV mrd and hope your back is feeling better today?

I've had another indulgent weekend, not good, and my totm still hasn't arrived so just feeling hormonal and in pain and wanting to eat the world Sad

Hope all the monday fasters have a good day Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 12:23

I'm fasting today
Anyone else ?

An FD might actually help reduce the totm urge for munchies, 43

Perimeno can be very tough, but cutting back on junk, boosting nutritious food and planning time for plenty of sleep, can help support your body while it is coping with this change

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 01/04/2019 12:40

I’m fasting too bcf. Very sunny day here today, DD and I have been to her favourite playground.

boxlikeamarchhare · 01/04/2019 14:28

Me too today - have so far had some miso soup and seaweed thin crackers as I had cramp in the night so wanted something salty. Early dinner at 4:30pm as I am going back to work this evening - chicken with a lemon and sage sauce with stir fried veg.

I must weigh myself but no point right now TOTM and even worse .... peri menopausal TOTM.

boxlikeamarchhare · 01/04/2019 14:30

Oh, have just scrolled up Blush, 43 we are in the same boat my friend Flowers.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/04/2019 15:06

it sucks doesn't it box

bcf FD planned for tomorrow and friday this week. Just trying to gee myself up and talk myself round to going to pilates tonight, I just want to have a long soak in the bath and an early night Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 19:39

That's right, box don't weigh during totm
it's discouraging and only a meaningless blip anyway, with the temporarily retained water

Did you go to Pilates, 43 ?
It helps firm up the bod and can make you feel stronger, more flexible.

That sounds fun, hummus, both of you outside enjoying the sun

I do love it when the clocks go forward to give longer sunny evenings 😀

A good exercise day - haven't done much else ! - fasted flexibility training, a short jog, 3 good Rhine walks and some cycling

Just finishing my FD at about 580, which is fine for maintenance

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 01/04/2019 20:03

Evening all

Bigchoc - I must have confused you, the pulled muscle was from dismantling an old IKEA bed not changing sheets 😉.

Its slowly getting better but was bloody painful! Luckily the kids were ace yesterday and looked after me. Fasting tomorrow and Friday this week.

43 and box - peri doesn't sound fun, and at 38 I'm not looking forward to it either!

blodynmawr · 01/04/2019 20:07

Indulgent Sunday to Mothers Day Blush but back on the horse today and usual Tuesday FD planned for tomorrow. Exercise going well though due to the glorious (if a tad cold) weather.... Good luck all other Tuesday fasters Smile

EssentialHummus · 01/04/2019 20:26

Checking in after my Monday fast, just finishing my last coffee. Lunch was a slight hotchpotch of veg with an egg omelette, then just crackers and coffee this evening. And we had a lovely day in the sun! TOTM started today so I'm staying off the scales as bigchoc suggests. No b2b tomorrow as the festival I'm catering for has lovely lasagne on offer, and I want to taste it after feeding the hordes!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2019 22:48

Aw, you've brought up kind DC, MrD 🙂

hummus You definitely should chill tomorrow after your hard work organising the event
and enjoy the special lasagne

Well done with the exercise, blody
It's perfect weather here for it, lovely sun on my back, so I stayed outdoors most of the day

OP posts:
SpottyDuvet · 02/04/2019 06:50

Morning! 1st day of B2B yesterday- which was fine - chicken, garlic, green beans and potato with onions.

Another today, and my main meal will probably be lunch as I’m with a client but going for a salad then will have no supper / tiny 90 cal soup instead.

It’s definitely easier for me to have nothing til the evening meal than have lunch as it kickstarts The Hunger but needs must today!

Need to weigh in tomorrow as well.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/04/2019 08:38

no bcf i didn't make pilates as totm finally arrived about 7pm, so I had a lovely hot bath, cup of tea, painkillers and an early night. Fd today although I'm struggling as I just want to comfort each the pain away Sad but i can hopefully pull through.

well done all the Monday fasters and good luck to my fellow tues fasters

enjoy the lasagne hummus mmmmmmm

OohMrDarcy · 02/04/2019 09:19

Morning all

Checking in for Tuesday FD here - 43, you can do it! Feel free to DM / Post here if you're struggling - I'm happy to support! I'm around a fair bit today , working from home. Boo to no pilates, but yay to TOTM finally showing up!

The miserable weather is back here - well a boring heavy drizzle anyway - think thats the sunshine gone for the rest of the week - meh!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/04/2019 09:31

thanks mrd Smile think I will need to post lots today to get me through...

Drizzle here too, but that's typical for Manchester Grin