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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2019 15:05

Running a fasted 5k, or doing other vigorous exercise, before breakfast would burn extra calories, whether on FD or NFD

What helps a little too:
Glug a black unsugared double espresso 10 minutes before fasted training
It helpd make bodyfat more available for burning as fuel

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/03/2019 16:54

Oh scruffy that sounds miserable Sad hope you can get things sorted.... Flowers

Fab sv essential you are so close Smile

Good luck harriet earslaps and spotty..... spotty I feel exactly the same about exercise but suddenly found something I can tolerate in pilates.

Welcome back mclairey

Nfd going well today have had hardly any time to eat might even treat myself to a mid week glass of red Wine but just 1 or 2 as I'm up v v early and fasting tomorrow.

Nearly there weds fasters Smile

SpottyDuvet · 27/03/2019 17:27

You see, everyone knew it was discipline not motivation except me! I’ve spent decades thinking “how can they all be bothered?” And the truth is “they” can’t be bothered either, they just do it anyway. Who knew. The 30 min cardio has been done, I did not, this time, have to fight the urge to throw up everywhere so I am practically an Olympian compared to last week.

My food has been weighed and eaten at the speed of light. I am now out of calories and planning a lengthy bath with a book to kill time before bed. Before then I shall be googling “5:2 diet before and after”.

God I’m looking forward to breakfast tomorrow.

Friday will be another fast day - and if Monday can be one too, that would be ideal, but we’ll see.

Pilates. I am contemplating this with my friend who has started to do it three times a week and wants a buddy. If she can persuade me that a marshmallow true beginner who says the C word doing a plank for any length of time will be welcome then I could maybe join her. At the back.

Earslaps · 27/03/2019 17:41

Spotty when you start exercising regularly and get over The 'I'm going to die' stage it does become enjoyable. I love the feeling afterwards, so that keeps me going back for more even when I can't be bothered. Definitely give Pilates a try, everyone has to start somewhere and with Pilates even lots of slim people would struggle if they aren't used to using their muscles like that.

FD went pretty well. One spoon of marmite at about 2.30, then had a nice big portion of lean mince bolognese sauce with courgetti and rocket, followed by a square of dark chocolate. I don't really count calories but I guesstimate about 350 calls for all that. I'm satisfied with what I've eaten so I won't have any more food tonight, I can dream of tomorrow's breakfast now, might make another chia pot, they are so good!

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2019 20:27

Well done on your FD, earslaps, spotty

Simple tasty menu, earslaps

spotty Pilates with a buddy is a great idea
You'll encourage each other and both be more likely to attend regularly

Most of what we can achieve in life - that is within our control - is due to discipline and persistence

Exercise & fitness are typical examples of this
Also something we need to do for selfcare, like washing ourselves, cleaning teeth, brushing hair, eating veg

re FD hunger:
when you've finished your last planned meal, get in the habit of drinking water and then cleaning your teeth
The fresh minty taste and the feel of a clean mouth really reduces the tempation to nibble

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 27/03/2019 21:58

I agree with all the exercise comments - I’m not like DH who can exercise for hours and hours but I’ve always done something, mainly because it means I feel infinitely better afterwards. I often don’t want to but I have a “thinking job” and sometimes I need to dump the excess. The mornings are best, firstly because I don’t really like running in the dark and secondly because now my 2 oldest DC have bigger homework loads I like to help them prioritise their study (am not a tiger mum!). They don’t need my help but they do need my involvement, if that makes any sense. They go to a great private school in Australia (so not U.K. fees) where some of their cohort are already having external tutoring and the like even at year 6 and 7 level. We haven’t considered that and they don’t need it but I like to help them keep on top of things. Having said that, my 11 year old daughter’s maths already surpasses my ability, but the school are catering well for that. DH and I are both doctors so my maths was pretty strong but she’s inherently much more mathy than me. She also swims 5 times a week which is more important to her than school work at the moment.

I had a good second FD yesterday and am down 200g which I’m pleased with because I’m still hanging on to that squishy fat. Weight is 67.1, BMI is 23.4. I am on my way to my conference and wearing some jeans I bought a few years ago but that got a bit snug and I’m delighted because they fit well and I look great . I’m hoping to fit in a run before things start this afternoon because I’ll be sitting down for hours. I’m also so pleased to be having a break from all things child related for a few days! I will still probably text DH instructions but he’s promised not to feel patronised.

scruffybarnsley · 27/03/2019 22:01

Thank you all for your support and advice, especially 43, hummus, BCF and earslaps. I've heard about the stool idea before so am definitely going to look into it. I've tried basically everything else (apart from the olive oil lemon concoction! So that's next!) and find that some things will work for a while and then just stop working and I need to find something else. It's frustrating but also just makes me feel so physically and mentally urrrgggh so thank you for being nice to me on a bad day Thanks

I love the exercise being discipline not motivation comment and actually that was like a penny dropping today and helped me to trot off for an evening run. Of course it's not easy - I think in my head everyone else loves exercise and never struggles with it, so when I do it feels like 'well maybe it's not for me!'. But to hear even BCF can sometimes not be in the mood was major! I agree building it into routine is the key.

Discipline all the way!!!

harriethoyle · 27/03/2019 22:06

Ending the day on 660... teeny bit high but I have been ravenous all day! And have a pt session tomorrow morning so not disastrous...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/03/2019 07:07

enjoy your breakfast spotty and i agree, try pilates, its really good.

well done on your fds harriet and nolonger and your SV and jeans NSV nolonger Smile

Hope you find something that works long term scruffy in the meantime keep posting here whenever it gets you down

FD today and I've changed office days as ddog would have been left too long on her own (she will sleep ALL day I know but I have mum guilt) Grin I always find a fd more difficult at home but can't fit it in any other day so I'll have to get on with it, anyone else fasting with me today? mrd we are usually FD buddies Smile

OohMrDarcy · 28/03/2019 10:27

Morning all,

Not fasting today I'm afraid 43! Tomorrow for me.

Sorry I've not been posting lots, life is hectic as ever! Had a good week so far though. Have been keeping an eye on the thread and then promptly forgetting to post !

Have decided I'm dragging the DC out for a walk at the weekend - and as its mothers day on Sunday I shall make sure they don't whinge about it Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2019 12:43

Congratulations on your SV and jeans NSV, surprised

A Mother's Day walk is an excellent idea, MrD

scruffy remember to stop taking any fibre supplements for a week or so, as well.

Well done on your FDs yesterday, harriet, surprised

Good luck, 43 and any other Thursday fasters

OP posts:
Badgerbird · 28/03/2019 14:50

Hello All! By the time I've caught up on the thread I've run out of time to post! Life is a bit hectic at the mo but I love reading all the progress and musings :)

Anyway it's my 4th FD and going fine. I'm surprised how ok I am without much food (averaging 600 instead of initial 800 idea). I'm almost feeling a little indignant as I bloody love food!! Confused
Hi 43 👋🏽 hope your FD is going well. I'm just having my veg n lentil soup then leftover slow cooker bean chilli & kale for dinner.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2019 17:15

Sounds like you're really in the fasting swing now, badger

I have a rare day of sore muscles after exercise:
Wednesday is my regular Advanced Lifting class,
in which the evil, sadistic trainer makes us do each lift for a whole song, without pause and with only 2 x 1 minute pauses in the entire 55 minutes

Normally it's whole body, which I'm used to.
However, last night we did legs only, so variations of squats, lunges, stepping up & down from a step etc with a heavy barbell digging into our shoulders

The entire 55 minutes
Oh my poor lower half !
and my sore shoulders

That was a triumph of discipline over common sense what I would have preferred to do.

However, I'm sure it is part of making me stronger
Possibly strong enough to hit him with a barbell

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2019 18:16

Added to that, while i was flopped on the settee enjoying good Kindle, there was loud banging on may door

I jumped up - to land in 2" water Shock
That was the janitor at the door teling me I had a leak, which had run down to the cellar

His team were super-efficient, repairig the leak and clearing away all the water from the floors, moving fridge etc, lifting my things off the floor

However, I had suitcases on the lounge floor with winter clothes I was putting away - they got soaked
So did my big gym bag with allmy sports gear

So I've been doing loads of washing and clearing up on my training restday.

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 28/03/2019 18:40

Gah bigchoc, that’s terrible luck that your winter clothes were out. Good on your janitor though - sounds very organised.

blodynmawr · 28/03/2019 20:15

FD today, approx 650 cals. Late home from work and a busy day.
Badly craving porridge tonight though, of all things Hmm, after a lovely spinach omelette supper... Guess what I'm having for breakfast?!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2019 20:42

Well done on your FD, Blody

Yes, Hummus German efficiency in action
I'll have an early night, as I'm knackered and I've training in the morning

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 28/03/2019 21:16

Ouch bigchoc that training session sounds hardcore, fingers crossed your barbell swinging training goes well Wink and to have to deal with all that with sore legs too Shock

Today I took DS for a run around in the park to play football (I'm rubbish) as it was so sunny. Lovely to feel good enough to be able to do that- without needing inhaler too! And yesterday I made up my own little exercise class at home- just to 2 x songs worth of music, but had fun squatting/ punching / kicking / bouncing... love this time of year !

SpottyDuvet · 29/03/2019 08:48

That is such a pain about the leak BCF - the barbell session also sounds painful!

I am meant to be fasting today though I have lunch with my mum which I forgot I had and also a birthday party tonight. I’m driving to the party so can just have water / soft and no nibbles and will just hope there’s some fish and veg on the menu at the restaurant for lunch. They don’t publish their menu online so will just wing it and hope for the best.

Cardio workout done and now I’m not feeling quite so crippled by muscle pain after it, I have put the next video up in difficulty terms (still very easy I might add) to watch it and get started on it next week.

Will check in later!

OohMrDarcy · 29/03/2019 09:19

Morning all

Friday FD for me - which will be a massive chicken caesar salad. Loving this weather at the moment. The DC will be having home made wedges with theirs and a bit of salad (well - a normal amount for daughter, and bits and bobs for son - cucumber / carrot etc)

Hope all the Thursday fasters had a good one and everyone else is having the beautiful weather where they are too! We are going for a kick about after school again today.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/03/2019 09:59

oh dear bcf that sounds awful.... and then to deal with a leak after all that! Hope its all back to normal now

Well done badger and blody Smile hope you enjoyed your porridge this morning

TOTM still threatening but not yet arrived Confused don't really know what's going on, but not impressed with the cravings and stomach cramps and back pain with no show yet!! very rude!

NFD today and we have school Easter bingo to look forward to after work Hmm where we get a supper of pasty and peas (yuk!) so I will be giving that a miss (I don't eat red meat and pastry gives me heartburn) not sure i'll have much time to eat beforehand though so will try and have a super big lunch to see me through and a couple of glasses of Wine afterward to get me over the ordeal.

Good luck fri fasters Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 12:08

That's brilliant exercise, MrD and I'm impressed at football

  • the one time i tried to kick a ball with some lads, I kicked my shoe in the air too Blush

I love being outside in the sun; we have to make the most of it

That's miserable, 43
Are you in perimeno ?

Well done with the cardio, spotty

As today is a special social day for you - lunch with mum & a party - maybe move the FD to tomorrow ?
Even a mini tomorrow (FD food & drink rules, but 1000 calories) would help, as Saturday is a heavy day for many

If you have plans for Saturday too, don't worry if this week is just 6:1

Good luck to MrD, spotty and any other Friday fasters

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/03/2019 13:40

i could well be bcf as I turn 45 next month?

That made me titter bcf as that is the exact thing that would happen to me Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 19:15

Sounds very like perimeno starting, 43
It can last several years Sad

Yep, I'm not much good at any ball game
I used to tell myself at school that the tennis ball was too small for me to see, with my dreadful sight
Can't really claim that excuse for a damn great football Blush

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 30/03/2019 06:32

Morning all

Saturday weigh in is here, 15st 12.2lb today. That's a 1.2lb loss for the week and just about sneaks me over the 2st total lost line - very happy with that, especially as last week was a particularly good loss week.

I fear I'm giving you all the impression that I'm good at these games! Not at all Blush I just run around kicking and trying not to injure myself, whilst encouraging my boy to do the same (he can be naturally a bit lazy so encourage activity wherever possible! And me joining in seems to mean it lasts longer)

Hope everyone else is well- hopefully going for our walk today here but also dismantling DS' bed as he is getting a room makeover in the holidays (next weekend onwards)