5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Had my first FD of the week yesterday (Monday) and will do the second on Wednesday. I’m not looking forward to it as it’s going to be a busy day and I’m already overthinking every aspect prior to going away Thursday morning.

I actually eat well whilst on this course - I usually forgo breakfast in favour of a run and there’re no full cupboards - but it’s sort of traditional to wander into the city looking for food when the day ends and I don’t want to be fasting on Thursday and have to have a supermarket meal by myself!

Last week I felt like I was looking quite slim but this week it’s like my tummy fat is loose and saggy. It’s good in that when I’ve lost baby weight before it would do this before a loss but I feel like I can’t escape my overhang!

Congratulations on your SVs, fiddle, hummus

Good luck, spotty, badger, 43 and anyone else fasting today

Most folk adapt to FDs after 2-3 weeks, badger
So you've made a good start and FDs will gradually become routine

spotty Your mini gives you 800-1000 calories, so enough for 3 small meals if you like
You still have the same FD food & drink rules on a mini
i.e. no alcohol, no junk, avoid fruit juice, dried fruit & breakfast cereal
Boost protein and have several different veg if you can

Hummus I love Morrocan veg meals - my fav is lamb, chick pea & apricot tagine

Fiddle To refuse offered snacks:
I usually say I don't want to spoil my appetite for lunch / supper / whatever meal is next
or that I'm not hungry yet
Or that I've just cleaned my teeth and everything tastes minty

Saving for later is a good ploy too - if it's not an FD, you can save it for pud, if it fits in your TDEE, so it's not a snack
I admit, I've often taken sugary crap I don't want even later - because it's too much hassle to refuse - and just dumped it

Add to your changing habits:
not sharing info about food / diet / weight with your social circle, including your mum

Many of us use these 5:2 threads to share, because everyone else in our lives would be discouraging / judgy / not interested

Enjoy your 40th, knowing you're already close to goal

surprised Mon+Wed is a good FD plan when you're going away Thursday

Belly fat can sometimes look squidgy before it disappears

This can be because some of the fat cells have partially filled with water, resisting further loss for a while
In that case, if you persist with the WOE, this water will be released and you'll get a whoosh that will leave you leaner

What also helps to firm up problem regions: exercise
especially HIIT, pump, Pilates

surprised- wobbly fat is a great sign! It's just a sign that you've lost fat, but the skin hasn't shrunk back again yet so it's all a bit looser there. I am also in the wobbly fat stage around the middle. I'd like to get to that stage on my legs too! According to Boditrax I have 20% fat around my middle, 25% around my arms and over 30% fat around my legs. Even when I was a skinny teen my thighs rubbed together!

fiddle, sounds like you are getting your head around this now and improving your relationship with food. Agree that snacking seems to be ingrained in our society, people seem to panic if they go too long without food (plus all the "eat little and often to boost your metabolism" rubbish that gets spouted). I constantly see people post 'healthy snack' ideas (often things where they have removed the white sugar and replaced it with a more expensive alternative like honey or agave syrup) and I just want to scream "just eat a decent meal instead!".

I do still have the occasional snack, but it's because I really want it, not because I think I 'need' it or out of habit. Instead, I eat decent sized meals with a good portion of protein and veg, then finish off with a bit of fruit or a square of dark chocolate to satisfy my sweet tooth!

Mini SV today- just a shade under 10st this morning, so another lb gone. Tomorrow is my Boditrax day, so I will see how much fat I have shed over the last week.

Ooh, forgot my NSV! I went for a run today and got a PR. 5k in 26.55 minutes. I think it's partly improved fitness from all my other activity and partly that there's just a little bit less of me to carry round!

I was quite surprised as yesterday was a FD and I often struggle a bit more with exercise the day after a FD. I did have a lovely breakfast though- a couple tbsp of chia seeds, a tbsp of ground flax seeds, a tbsp of oats, two chopped dates, a sprinkle of cinnamon and a tsp of maple syrup all mixed together with almond milk and left in the fridge overnight. Added a few blueberries and some homemade granola on top this morning. It was so delicious.

I find it very hard not to graze, and I know snacking is my big downfall. Anyway FD here today, and I've just been to a trampoline park with the DC. Oh. My. Word. I'm dying 😂 good luck other tasters.

Earslaps wow well done, that's a great PB

Congratulations on your SV, Earslaps
and your pb, an excellent 5k
Several 5:2ers have had a succession of PBs, because of having less fat to move, with the same amount of muscle

OMG I recommend that before each NFD you plan out 4 meals for the day, with #3 being much smaller than the others
No calorie counting, just make sure you have plenty of protein & nutritients, like veg, in each meal

If you do that, then you shouldn't need to eat for at least 4 hours, hence no snacking / grazing

It is normal & healthy to feel hungry for the hour before a meal,
that's how I grew up in the 1950s & 1960s, that's how humans lived for millenia

Why we shouldn't snack

Mosely and most other fasting experts recommend no snacking between meals

Snacks were popularised by BIg Food around 1980, to increase profits.
They also increased waistlines.

Even "healthy" snacks - like fruit or dipping veg - keep insulin raised and hence reduce the time in which your body can burn fat.
And the most common / tempting snacks are not even healthy

Also, human studies show that most people consume more calories in a 24-hour period if they snack,
because the reduction in meal size (if any) is usually less than the calories contained in all the snacks.

You can lose despite snacking, but it will be slower than without.
So, have any treats - lattes, alcohol, crisps, biscuits, even fruit - as part of a meal.

^Broad definition of a snack is that it is less than 3-4 hrs away from a meal.

Snacks are ok for those who need to gain weight, e.g. underweight DC - but this applies to only a few in the West

Snacking has caused a fundamental change for most of the population, compared to many millennia of evolution

• almost no traditional eating culture includes snacking.

Each 24 hour day with snacks is now insulin-dominant instead of fasting-dominant, see graphs from Dr Jason Fung:

Gosh I've just inhaled my tea..... fd done on 520cal, cup of tea later whilst watching the walking dead how are all the other Tues fasters getting on?

Excellent sv and nsv ears

Good luck with your course fd nolonger

Well done, 43

FD today. Approx 750 cals.
Another walker here - try to do 5-6km every morning first thing. Used to do Jillian Michaels workouts at home. Whilst they were good for burning calories, I have found walking outside is far better. Thrre is something indescribable about being out in the weather that has greater benefits for my overall wellbeing than being indoors. Moseley advocates pre-breakfast walks in his Clever Guts book but I was an advocate before I read it. I go out in all weathers and get withdrawal symptoms if I have to miss a day due to work or illness.

Another 750er here. Trout fillet and ratatouille for dinner. It was yum.

Well done, Blody, OMG

Well done bloody and omg

Nfd today and I've woken up feeling like totm is imminent (4 days early though) and the day when I'm interviewing all sodding day... grrrrrr

Anyway, moan over, good luck weds fasters

Morning everyone, another beautiful sunny day here.

Things have got so busy in life at the moment that I'm struggling to keep up with the thread, sorry. Great exercise achievements though earslaps and box! I've been back out running this week after a few weeks off and feels like I'm back at the beginning again! Ached sooo much for very little running!

Still plodding on with the FD though. Sorry for TMI but I'm feeling a little rubbish in myself at the mo as I've been so blocked up recently. It's been a recurring issue for me all my life, been to doctors etc who think it's IBS-C but haven't been hugely helpful. I think sometimes they say that when they don't know what else to say. It flares up every now and then and it's awful atm, nothing is shifting it and it's making me feel a bit low

Anyway, I'm just keeping on with the FDs and have generally been good in the knowledge that when it shifts I should be losing - it's just a bit masked on the scales atm given the additional (ahem) weight I'm carrying! Sorry for the moan but it's been getting me down

Have a great day fasters. NFD for me. Well done all losers this week!

Well done 43 and blody.

I had my b2b yesterday and weighed in today at 72kg, down about a pound since the day before - I'm very happy with that. Now 2kg away from target. Just had lovely scrambled eggs on toast for breakfast.

scruffy that does sound rubbish and of course it's masking weight loss. Maybe it's too simplistic a suggestion given the unknown cause, but have you tried prune juice? The larger supermarkets sell it in the non-refrigerated drinks section. After I had DD and was terrified of pooing I drank a bottle or two and it sorted me out.

Morning fasters! Anyone with me?

Excellent fds @43 @blody @omg xx

So! Mini was fine yesterday- and an FD today. I have loads to do so hopefully won’t be thinking too hard about food. I have to fit in 30 mins of cardio - I hate exercise and am still aching from the last one but I need to do it. I saw a good YouTube thing on exercise tips and the first was “discipline not motivation” which has hit the spot for me. The theory being that motivation will always run out eventually because you can’t be motivated 100% of the time.

Will check in later to flounce over my hunger!

congratulations, Hummus

Yep, spotty It is discipline that is the base of my exercise program
And routine - I know which class is on which day
Sometimes I feel not in the mood, but discipline makes me do it - then I usually enjoy it by the end

scruffy It may be counter-intuitive, but if you are taking fibre supplements, then stop for a week or two (unless they are prescribed by your doctor)

Supplements can actually worsen a blockage and some 5:2 ers, e.g. duck, thought i was nuts stopped them and found it really helped. So

Try this instead instead for constipation (give it 1-2 weeks to work)

• Stop fibre supplements
• Drink lots of water, starting when you wake up and continuing all day
• Stop alcohol, coffee and fizzy drinks, except fizzy water
• Take this remedy once per day, on an empty tum, i.e. before breakfast or a few hrs after eating.

• 1 tbsp olive oil
• 1 teasp lemon juice

scruffy- lots and lots of veg should help too, pears and berries are brilliant for getting things moving. I eat lots of seeds and nuts and that always seems to keep things moving. Another tip is plenty of exercise- if I don't move around enough I find I can get a bit bunged up.

Yes, exercise is mostly about determination rather than motivation. I find it so hard to do it sometimes, but I have to remind myself that I will feel physically and mentally much better when it's done. Part of the reason I like the early classes is that I don't have time to talk myself out of going! It's too easy to find any excuse not to exercise, but when I don't I get so grumpy and anxious, plus I tend to get ill more often. 5:2 and HIIT seem to be the best thing for my body and mental health.

FD here and it's going ok so far. Going to make bolognese tonight, so I will have it with courgetti rather than spaghetti, plus a side salad. I'll keep going on herbal tea and marmite until then.

Scruffy- I also forgot about how to sit when you try to go! Experts have found that our western seated position for the loo increases constipation as it blocks the exit a bit! They recommend you raise your feet with a stall (a stool stall ) whilst you go, so that you are mimicking squatting.

An interesting article about what ears says above:

www.theguardian.com/news/2018/nov/30/bowel-movement-change-the-way-you-poo-squatty-potty-toilet

And I noticed my rubbish spelling- 'stool stool'

Hi all, I just wanted to reintroduce myself as I have been lurking on and off for over two years. I will give you a quick overview of my 37 year old self.

I dabbled with 5:2 in 2016 and lost a bit of weight, by this time I had two sons and pregnancy was just an excuse to overeat so I was quite overweight. I then fell pregnant with DS3 and stopped 5:2ing. He was born end Sept 2017 and once bf was established I restarted 5:2 in January 2018 weighing in at 13st 5. I followed my own version of 5:2 in that I fasted two days, cut out sweet and junk during the week but ate what I wanted at the weekend and mainly tried to incorporate 16:8. I didn’t measure, calculate or log what I was eating and I wasn’t exercising. However slowly but surely the weight came off and just before the Christmas period I came in at 11st 2. My initial goal was 11st.

I had some time off over Christmas and gained a whopping 6lbs as of 1 Jan. I got straight back on it but as of last week I have only got back down to 11st 4. I have religiously done my fast days and I have been fairly restrictive with junk and sugar during the week but I have noticed the snacking has crept up (fruit, crispbreads etc) so I need to work on that. I fear that I am eating back my deficit on weekends and because of this I am not losing and haven’t lost for a while. I have therefore decided to cut out snacking completely and I have downloaded MFP to start logging what I am eating. This seems a bit overwhelming though as I really didn’t want to go back to weighing and measuring food (I did this on weightwatchers and hated it). I feel like the reason I have been able to stick to this WOE is because I have kept to my relaxed weekends which are important to me as a mum of 3 boys (6, 4 and 18 months). However I would like to shift a few more pounds to get back into the 10 stone bracket comfortably.

I have always hated exercise and due to bad sleepers I haven’t been able to muster up the energy to do anything other than walking these last few years. However 3 weeks ago I started doing C25K and this morning I completed run 2 of week 3. My husband runs twice a week so has been trying for a long time to get me running, not just for weight loss and fitness but for mental wellbeing too. I cant say I love it yet but I am determined to finish the programme and hopefully by the end I will love it. There is something special about running at 5:30 in the morning when the birds are tweeting and there is no one else around. I am curious to know whether it is more beneficial to run in the morning after a fast day or the morning of a fast day. I have done both but not sure which one will be better long term.

I was also thinking about doing a mini fast one day on top of my 2 fast days (or just having dinner on that day) to see if that helps. I am loathe to fast one day at the weekend as we are a foodie family and the weekends are the only times we all eat together which is very enjoyable for me. I am also going to try and not "eat what I like" during the day at the weekend and stick to the no snacking rule then too. Hopefully this will help.

Anyway, I love this WOE, I don’t suffer with bloating as much these days and I have cut down massively on bread and sugary junk overall. I just need to work on dropping these last few pounds. I know what I need to do, I just have to stick to it as much as possible. Its all so much harder now that I am back at work though as the snacking comes from being at a desk unfortunately.

Nice to "meet" you all. I find you all very inspiring and fascinating at the same time. BigChoc, you gave me some great advice when I first started back in 2016 so I am glad you are still here!

Welcome back, Maclairey 🙂

If you only have a few lb to go, you are probably well within healthy BMI, with little excess fat accessible to burn
Hence, loss will probably be much slower than before / require much more strictness

I agree that mfp is a pain, but a good tool of last resort, as a reality check, if you are eating back the FD deficit

However, you could do it just for 1 week, to find where the problem is:

• indulgent weekends hugely over TDEE
• hidden calorie bombs - e.g. muffin may be 600 cals, Dominos 2000+
• portion size of reasonably health foods - esp with oily / creamy sauces or deep-fried
• excess alcohol or sugar, both of which can hinder weight loss even more than the calories would suggest

What you could try instead on NFDs,
is to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

• NHS alcohol limits,
• NEVER snack / graze between meals, even "healthy" ones
• have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
• lots of water & veg
• cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones