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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2019 08:44

43 spin, pump, Zumba, taebo are all excellent classes for building fitness & burning calories
Look at your gym timetable and see what fits, then if something looks interesting, try it.

Good luck, Hummus, MrD

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 25/03/2019 12:24

I've had a whoosh and am only 1.7kg away from my vague target! And am on one smaller belt loop this morning so NSV too Grin

I went out walking this weekend and I LOVED it @boxlike. I'd forgotten how cheering fresh air and the sun on your face is. We've already planned a walk in next weekend and possibly two!

OohMrDarcy · 25/03/2019 12:34

Fab news on the woosh harriet - congrats!

Belt buckle NSV is always a good one too

Earslaps · 25/03/2019 15:27

Well done on the whoosh and the NSV Harriet! It just shows that if you keep on keeping on then results will come!

FD here and I'm feeling a bit whingey right now so need a slap round the face with a wet fish Grin. Have been guzzling peppermint tea so much that I am getting a lot of steps in just going to the loo! Had a small bowl of kimchi and spinach leaves for lunch, have prepped the evening meal (oven roasted veg with parma ham wrapped cod) and can't wait to have it!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/03/2019 15:48

that's fab harriet Grin

oh dear earslaps no wet fish to hand but you are way over half way through your FD and not long now if you have an early tea?? Good luck! Could you have something like a bovril to get you through another couple of hours?

Earslaps · 25/03/2019 15:58

Thanks 43 Smile. I might have a quick spoonful of marmite before I head to school pick up (probably need the salt since I sweated A LOT at my spin class this morning), then it will be dinner time!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2019 16:01

Congratulations on your whoosh SV, Harriet
and your belt / inches NSV

43 has good advice, earrslaps A hot Bovril can help stave off hunger until tea
or even a cup of coffee
and here are some wet fish 🐠🐟 for you !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2019 16:02

Ah, after strenuous exercise, you might need Marmite to replenish salt & other minerals

OP posts:
PissPotPourri · 25/03/2019 17:04

Hi all. FD here today, and a much needed one too! After my sv last week am feeling disheartened. Had a works do on Thursday which was a curry and despite doing a fd on the friday I was 1lb up. Have kept to tdee since then but the scales are going up and up and another 2lb on since! I have been doing more exercise though so maybe that's had an impact somehow... or im clutching at straws. Will be in Spain this time next week and just wanted to feel good. Hey ho.
Cant remember who asked upthread about feeling sad or angry on fDs? Definitely something i struggle with and even the day after. It was the 'hanger' that made me leave 5:2 a few years ago, it just wasn't fair on those around me.
Im really trying to be on top of it this time, upping salt on fDs and even calories if i can feel myself teetering on the edge. I think it's the way my body deals with insulation fluctuations possibly, my mood was a lot more stable when I low carbed!
Hummus i feel your pain with working with good food. (Possibly out myself here) I work with artisan cheese and have to taste cheeses daily as part of my job.
Well done Harriet on your woosh...great feeling.

Earslaps · 25/03/2019 18:30

Piss, could be water retention due to salty curry or excess carbs with curry. Or it could be your muscles holding onto water to help repair themselves after exercise. So don't panic and just keep on with the 5:2. It's a marathon, not a sprint Smile

Dinner consumed and I am stuffed, had a massive plate full of roasted veg with the cod, all in all around 300cals for the meal, then about 50 for a square of dark chocolate afterwards.

I love that so many FD meals I think 'I'd have that on a NFD', it's great to discover so many healthy, filling meals to add to my repertoire.

Looking forward to breakfast now! Don't have enough yogurt left for my usual yogurt with granola and berry chia seed jam, so think I might make a chia seed pot with some granola sprinkled on top.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2019 19:55

One week is nothing, pot just a blip
It's best to look at the trend over 2-3 weeks
because weight varies naturally a couple of lb for many people, which can disguise a small loss

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2019 20:01

earslaps That's great you are enjoying satisfying healthy meals on FDs
imo, fish - or other high quality protein - plus masses of veg is delicious and filling

e.g. at my favourite (regional prize winner) restaurant, I often have grilled salmon strips and a lovely salad, vinaigrette made with high-quality olive oil.
The only difference on NFDs is that I have their crusty bread with it.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 25/03/2019 20:03

Kitchen closed after a successful FD here, main meal was lunch, chilli lime and ginger chicken with Singapore rice noodles and veg, with some soup for dinner.

Now sipping a massive cup of tea and feeling content. Got leftovers of the chicken and noodles for lunch tomorrow- it really is delicious (and lazy- waitrose pre done stuff)

Hope everyone else has had a good day

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2019 20:16

Well done, MrD, earlslaps and all the other Monday fasters

OP posts:
Borris · 25/03/2019 21:27

Just been catching up and seems like there have been some super successes!

FD for me today. I’ve had a delicious ready meal from Asda. Had it with salad and am now feeling pleasantly full

Borris · 25/03/2019 21:28

This was it

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind
BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2019 21:49

Well done Borris

I recommend cleaning teeth now and an early night for all fasters, to maximise fasting benefits

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/03/2019 22:02

Well done all you fasters Smile

Mmmm mrd your meal sounds delicious

Just back from pilates and off to bed. Up at 5.30am (urgh) fd#1 tomorrow

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/03/2019 22:03

Ooh piss your job sounds like heaven Grin

PissPotPourri · 25/03/2019 22:07

43 it could be worse Grin

fiddletree · 25/03/2019 23:58

Hi all, and thanks so much for your advice about my wobble, BigChoc and surprised. This is such a genuinely supportive and informative group - really grateful for it. Really good to get that info about the way 5;2 prevents the metabolic drop, and to eat to full TDEE on at least one of the NFDs, to keep it up. Also, a good incentive to continue to recalibrate my sense of what a "normal" calorie intake actually looks like.

I think snacking has been where I tended to put the weight on, while BFing. That is perhaps the thing I like the most (in a weird way!) about this WOE - the clarity on that: NO SNACKING. End of story. It makes so much sense to me, and is the thing I really want to maintain. I find it interesting, though, how so many people find this socially unacceptable - especially when you're in mum/baby groups, the morning tea/afternoon cake or biscuit or slice is SO ubiquitous, and there can almost be peer pressure to eat. Particularly if someone has gone to the trouble to bake. I find it hard to think of what to say to people to avoid taking something sometimes. I have actually on FDs even accepted food and then sneaked it into my bag, because this is easier than saying 'no, I"m cutting out sugar', or whatever! I probably just need to woman up and be honest instead of a people-pleaser!

Surprised - yes, you hit the nail on the head. This is just how I feel, in terms of past restrictiveness almost biasing me against 'diet' or 'regime' eating. I like the coaching you use on yourself, and will borrow. And also I think becoming more relaxed on NFDs, instead of somehow seeing as if I need to keep up the FD mentality.

Good news is that I broke through the little plateau I was on, and am really close to my goal pre-preg weight. I can't quite believe it. So close I can taste it. It's my DS' first birthday, and my mum will be here (and I don't want to talk about food/WOE with her....there's history there which makes it easier not to), then the week following is my, gulp, 40th. So, both weeks will be interesting in terms of it being harder to fast and there being quite a bit of indulgent food around. But, thinking far more of long-term, and feeling a bit more confident about it all at the moment.

Well done all FDers! So many great ideas for FD meals, as well as amazing updates from you walkers. I am so envious of your yorkshire dales locale box. Old-school Herriot fan, here Grin. I miss English countryside so much. We used to live close to the city version of it in Hampstead Heath and what i wouldn't give to go for a buggy-push/walk there of an afternoon...

EssentialHummus · 26/03/2019 07:41

Checking in for a b2b. Weighed in this morning at 72.5kg, down just over a pound since last week which I am very happy with. harriet I took your advice about the Lidl "what's cooking?" range and was really impressed with it - I had a Moroccan veg stew which was 189cal, and added more veg and some chicken breast. Delicious and about 6 of my 5 a day. Borris I usually go for those Asda meals on FDs, especially the Asian style ones as that's my favourite food. (Our nearest Asda is a pain to get to though!)

piss I will think of you when I meet with our bread and cheese man on Friday - definitely a NFD for me so I can sample the goods! It's tough though when that's your daily environment.

fiddle happy birthday to your DS.

Good luck today 43 and any other Tuesday fasters.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/03/2019 08:20

well done on breaking through fiddle Smile and hope you manage the next couple of weeks okay but make sure you enjoy your birthday, its no big deal turning 40 - honestly Grin

excellent SV essential good luck on day 2 of B2B

skinny latte this morning to get me through to lunch, then a weird plateful of turkey breast, tomatoes and gherkins as the Subway I usually get my salad from was shut (how rude!) so had to make do in morrisons. Dinner - i think i'm having 4 heck chicken sausages with some veggies

Good luck tues fasters

Badgerbird · 26/03/2019 09:09

Good morning Tues fasters it's my FD too. Apple, Big salad with marinated tofu for lunch. 3 bean veggie chilli in slow cooker for dinner tonight. It's only my 2nd week so I have no idea how I'm gonna find today. Fingers crossed!

I'm loving all the honesty fiddle and surprised. I totally understand and can relate. Thankyou so much for all the info and wise words you share BCF

I'm loving the sound of all your big walks! I used to love walking so much but my toddler is desperate to get out the buggy and walk too so it's not such a good sweaty stomp anymore.

Great to see all the SVs!! Keep up the great progress Smile

SpottyDuvet · 26/03/2019 09:54

Just checking in - I’ve been away for a week and couldn’t squeeze in a FD and frankly overate which was irritating - I think today will probably be a mini, then tomorrow and Friday proper FDs.

Going to try to catch up on the thread now.

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