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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 10:42

blossom Do post whenever you want cheering up
Doesn't need to be anything about food or fasting
and let us know how your recovery is going, all the milestones back to mobility

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 20/03/2019 12:03

Thanks BigChoc will do. X

OMGithurts · 20/03/2019 15:19

blossom you poor thing. That all sounds horrendous. I hope you start feeling a tiny bit better now your pain meds are sorted out. Have you been given anything for your bowels?

OohMrDarcy well done! Thats a great milestone Smile

EssentialHummus how long have you been following this WOE? Downward trends are good Smile

My next FD this week will be Friday probably. As I work PT compressed hours, and am a saddo with no social life, week days and weekends make little difference to me.

But on the plus side this saddo has lost 4lbs in the first week. I know most of it is water weight but it's a motivating start, and some of it is fat surely? My jeans also feel slightly less resistant to fastening 😂

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 15:26

Congratulations on your SV, OMG
Good start

There will be some fat in that
and even losing water weight is good, because excess water can lead to increased BP
as well as making you feel bloated

OP posts:
blodynmawr · 20/03/2019 15:35

Can I join?
I have been doing 5:2 and 16:8 on NFDs since January. I want to lose 4st and so far have lost 1st 6lb.
Motivation on FDs is great as work in busy corporate environment where black coffee until noon is fine. Smile

Iamblossom · 20/03/2019 18:07

@OMGithurts yes the doctor gave me sachets of cosmocol and I took 8 a day for two days, and then had a movement the size of a small country.

OohMrDarcy · 20/03/2019 18:46

OMG - fantastic start, well done!

Blody - newbies always welcome, sounds like you are doing really well so far.

Blossom - bet you are feeling the relief after your massive poo!

blodynmawr · 20/03/2019 19:09

Thanks all Smile
@Badgerbird On FDs i come in somewhere between 600 and 800 cals and have steadily lost weight each week. I have a lot to lose though!
The rate of loss varies - some weeks 1lb some weeks 3-4lb.

harriethoyle · 20/03/2019 19:48

The kitchen is closed here at 575 cals.

New discovery today is the lidl "what's cooking?" range - an excellent 3 bean chilli, huge portion for only 273 calories. It was great!

Iamblossom · 20/03/2019 20:12

@OohMrDarcy OMG. Impacted bowels were worse than the fractures at the time. Although I guess they did serve as a distraction....

I'm going to look out for that dish at Lidl, thanks!

EssentialHummus · 20/03/2019 20:13

harriet that sounds great, I will pay them a visit!

EssentialHummus how long have you been following this WOE?

OMG since October last year. I'm now about 10kg/1.6 stone down, 3ish away from my target.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 20:15

Welcome, blody 🙂
and well done on an excellent SV
Sounds like you have developed a fasting system that suits your lifestyle

The rate of loss will probably slow down as you reach the last 1-2 stone, but don't worry, you'll get to goal at your own pace

Well done on your FD, Harriet and any other Wednesday fasters

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 20:18

You're doing well, Hummus
Good progress

What non-food reward have you chosen MrD
to celebrate losing 10% of your body weight ?
That milestone deserves something that makes you smile

You're probably several lb lighter after that massive poo, Blossom !
Better out than in

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 20/03/2019 20:31

Well done MrD, that’s a great achievement.

blossom would audio books be an option? You could get through that “pile” of books to be read that most of us have but not have to focus through a medication or pain haze.

badger I eat 500cal a day on a FD but don’t count the milk in coffee and I have a few of those, although low fat on a FD. I’ve lost 8kg in 13 weeks so it’s been slow but steady but I’m still losing with 3-4 kg to go, albeit slower. I do exercise though.

Thursday morning and FD here, will have a couple of eggs at 900 before work, after I’ve dropped off the kids, then the rest about 6. Not sure what yet, but I like the protein, brown rice, broccoli and carrot combination. Stops me feeling hungry overnight.

Earslaps · 20/03/2019 21:10

Hi all, this thread is moving way too fast for me to keep up with!

Welcome to any newbies, and good luck. If you stick with it and ride out the plateaus you will do great. It's a really easy WOE to stick to IMO, and even if you can't manage a FD a few times for whatever reason, it's no harm done as you can just pick it up again when you're ready.

NFD here today and had a lovely dinner of chilli con carne with loads of beans, so I'll be jet propelled for my run tomorrow morning Grin.

blossom- I did giggle at your giant turd, that must be at least 4lbs lost then?! Seriously though, I hope you're starting to feel a bit more human. After my CS I was given codeine (I'm allergic to ibuprofen and all related painkillers), and I ate industrial quantities of fig rolls washed down with pear juice to keep things moving. Lidl stopped selling pear juice, but it might be available in Polish shops. It is very good for clearing out the bowels if needed!

Boditrax machine today showed 600g of fat lost over the last week, with a little bit of muscle gained too, so it looks like I'm heading in the right direction. I know these things are completely accurate, but they are a pretty good guideline. I noticed my fat has got a bit more 'wobbly', which I remember before when I was losing- you one day feel even more flabby than you felt before, then suddenly the fat is gone. The internet consensus seems to be water held in the fat cells that releases, plus skin that needs to shrink down to your new size.

Tomorrow is a FD, so green tea until a small cup of soup at lunch, then some baked fish with asparagus and tomatoes for dinner. Plus a run in the morning after dropping the children at school.

Well done to all who fasted today and good luck to all Thursday fasters.

Badgerbird · 20/03/2019 21:33

Thanks for the welcome and good to know those numbers work for you blody.

Thanks for all that info bigchoc it did make me giggle though as you basically described the opposite of me 🙈 looks like 3 MFDs might be way forward. I reckon Tues & Thurs 800, Weds 1000. Does that sound okish? They are easiest days for me to do it. My TDEE is 1800. TBH it's not like I binge or eat loads of crap the other days but I do want my wine and homemade garlic bread at the weekend! I'm only looking to lose half a stone and aware it will take longer this way but I'm very wary of diets so I'm taking it one step at a time. I'm also really interested in it from a health aspect esp with regards to getting older and staying healthier.

FD tomorrow- small bowl homemade veggie and lentil soup for lunch. Small portion brown rice, veg & beans for dinner. Possibly boiled egg or banana & 4 almonds for brekkie. 2 litres water on top of tea/coffee. Does that sound about right to you guys?

PissPotPourri · 20/03/2019 22:01

Evening all! Just popping on to say well done on your amazing progress all and welcome to the newbies.
Blossom thinking of you and wishing you a very speedy and pain free recovery.
One month on 5:2 for me and my first half stone gone as of this morning. I'm chuffed with that... BMI slap bang on 22 now and o feel well on the way to confident again.
I have to confess though that I'm in awe of you lit who can fast and exercise etc on the same day. I really struggle with shakes and feeling very unwell and angry. Adding salt as BCF suggested and eating high protein on fast days helps bit I know it's not really ideal. I don't want to do 800 calorie fasting though...it's too hard cooking for 3dc and dh without eating completely differently more than twice a week.

PissPotPourri · 20/03/2019 22:02

Ps sorry for typos. On my phone...

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 22:09

That sounds a good plan, badger

Congratulations on your SV, pot
That's a good BMI already
Good progress and you have found a system that suits you, so it should be sustainable.

Well done on your body composition NSV, earslaps
Burning fat and gaining a little muscle, win-win
I envy you your Boditrax

Congratulations on your SV and progress, surprised
Those are good healthy food combinations

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 22:13

Blossom For the weekend, I suggest you download some Kindle books, try audio too, if you haven't yet.

Also, this is the perfect opportunity for a guilt-free orgy of boxsets

Do you have a wheelchair that your OH could use to take you outside, if it's sunny ?
It's worth asking for one, if you haven't.
Being outside really helps mood - and if he takes you for a walk, it will build up his muscles too !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 22:14

Oh and you can think up more thread titles, blossom .. preferably ones that don't mention poo !

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 21/03/2019 00:03

You're probably several lb lighter after that massive poo, Blossom !

^ My first thought too! ^

Sorry you’re having a tough time of it blossom. Flowers

It’s heartening to read that so many of you are having SVs and NSVs. Far too many to keep up with!

Bleugh. I’ve had sinusitis for the last fortnight. Definitely on the mend now, so fasted today. Haven’t been near the scales in a while, but I’m confident I’ve lost 7lb in snot alone! I think I’ll go for a mini FD tomorrow and will fast again on Sat.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2019 11:12

I hope that sinusitis goes away again quickly, Maz
Good luck on your FD

OP posts:
Earslaps · 21/03/2019 18:41

FD has gone well so far.

A run then walking home from school run, lots of green tea and peppermint tea, a small cup of homemade butternut squash and bean soup, a brisk walk back up the hill to school, then taking DC swimming. Currently on 17000 steps.

Dinner is in the oven- baked sea bass fillet with asparagus and tomatoes, plus wilted spinach on the side. Can't wait!

Iamblossom · 21/03/2019 18:48

Thanks for all good wishes. I seem to be maintaining ok and I am being very careful with what I eat. No need for wheel chair big choc I can walk fine, in fact I plan to do a dog walk with my daxie (not the black lab pup in case he pulls) tomorrow, and yes with an audio book! Alcohol has also been pretty much non existent for 3 weeks too which is a nice break for me.