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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2019 10:25

surprised That virus sounds exhausting
and your body may need extra nutrients to support your immune system.

I suggest you just concentrate on TLC - with healthy NFDs - no booze, no crap - until you recover

I hope you get the all-clear from your tests to restart, smile
Good luck and for next week

You can enjoy your bacon sarnie today, hummus !

Well done on your FD, fiddle, dripping, scruffy, earslaps and any other Monday fasters

Good luck for today's FD, MrD, 43 and anyone else

fiddle totm bloat will often disguise fat loss.
The retained water is usually released the FD after the end of totm, so it might be after this FD or the next until you see the real status.

If scales can discourage you, better to skip weighing until after the next FD

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2019 10:26

So, surprised probably best to skip fasting until you are better
or just have a miniFD if you aren't hungry

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 19/03/2019 11:25

I didn’t expect it to go well, bigchoc but it’s been a great FD, probably my easiest yet. The last few days I’ve been feeling ravenously hungry and then unwell to the point of nausea immediately after and it’s as though taking eating out of the equation has given my body a break. Or I’m just better and it’s all coincidental Smile I haven’t needed pain relief for my throat today either.

I’ve probably been more like 650 though as when I got hungry this evening I ate what my body needed, though it was fairly healthy (a spicy vege and kidney bean mix DH made plus some brown rice) and some Greek yoghurt.

Tuesaday night here, good luck to the Tuesday morning fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2019 13:39

Well done, surprised
Let's hope you are on the mend, now.
Have early nights if you can, as sleep will help

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 19/03/2019 16:44

Evening all,

I'm home with a successful FD under my belt already. Just mountains of water and an early night to go!

Will check in properly later

OMGithurts · 19/03/2019 18:40

FD complete here, as above plus a few cherry tomatoes and 2 mini breadsticks (7cal each so I don't think that's a disaster!) It's been quite a busy day, which always helps.

Toothbrushing and as early a night as my sleep hating older child will allow. The aim is to go for a swim before work in the morning but that will depend on how the night goes.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 19/03/2019 19:07

Well done nolonger mrd omg and all the other Tues fasters, fd finished here on 508 call. Cup of tea later and an early night.

Earslaps · 19/03/2019 21:23

Successful FD yesterday and strange eating day today to fit around an evening event. Had lunch at 1pm, then a bowl of soup at 4.30pm before heading to an event. Still hungry so going to have a small plate of cheese and biscuits and grapes.

As predicted I am hovering carefully around the 10 stone mark after yesterday's FD but feeling a bit more svelte.

Excellent SV for Mr Earslaps though! He's lost 8lbs since starting 5:2 a couple of weeks ago. Even better, according to the boditrax he has lost 1kg of fat in the last 6days! So he's feeling pretty motivated to carry on right now.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 00:36

Well done, Tuesday fasters

Congratulations to Mr Earslaps on his SV and bodyfat NSV
Great start

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 20/03/2019 06:25

Morning all

My post FD keeping track scale check has advised me that I can now confirm that:

I have lost 10% of my total body weight 🎉 (believe this is a big one for health benefits?)

And also....

I have lost 25% of the total I think I need to lose! Obviously the final goal will depend on many factors closer to the time - how I'm feeling in my body etc. But I'm 25% of the way through my journey to a healthy BMI 🎉🎉🎉

Well done to all the other fasters yesterday. 43, sounds like you are back in the game!

Sorry I didn't come back last night, was exhausted and was in bed by 9.30 !

fiddletree · 20/03/2019 06:43

Well done Earslaps (and Mr Earslaps!), 43, OMG, and Surprised. Hope you’re feeling better soon, Surprised: that’s hardcore, fasting while you’re ill. Oh, and speaking of getting better, how’s the recovery, Blossom?

Holy moly, that is amazing progress, MrDarcy. You’re a quarter of the way there!

I was starving at the end of my NFD yesterday, so ate quite a big breakfast today in spite of usually missing it for FD. (Ahem, 'big' is all relative. I had my NFD go to: greek yoghurt, small scoop of oats, handful of berries, some LSA powder, and 7 almonds, haha.) Thought I’d probably go for a mini FD, but managed to rein it in at around 700 cal, give or take. Going to have a square of dark choc with my (milky) tea, and call it a somewhat relaxed FD. And that's me for the week, I think. Not too bad. Grin

OohMrDarcy · 20/03/2019 07:00

Well done fiddle!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/03/2019 07:19

Wow mrd that is amazing progress Smile

Well done on your restraint fiddle

Nfd today and going to save some calories as I'm meeting a friend for dinner and drinks after work tomorrow, then fd#2 planned for Fri

YourSarcasmIsDripping · 20/03/2019 07:33

FD day today. Going to take BigChoc 's advice and have another one at the weekend and see how that goes.
Well done to everyone and good luck if you're fasting today.

EssentialHummus · 20/03/2019 07:41

Managed a b2b yesterday, with a ready meal + veg at lunchtime and plenty of coffees. No loss today but the overall trend is positive:
74.8
73.8
74.1
73.7 b2b
73.3
73.3 b2b

Congrats mrd and mr earslaps - wonderful milestones to motivate you.

Good luck today sarcasm and any other Wednesday fasters.

Iamblossom · 20/03/2019 08:07

Hey all. Thanks for asking @fiddletree . I am still reading thread and all your fastsploits.

My month of hell continues. Got impacted bowels from all the codeine last week so can't take that anymore. Violently lost my evening meal on Sunday from the morphine so stopped taking that. Cue the next two days of being unable to breath properly and lots of pain and ended up calling 111 yesterday afternoon.

A pair of lovely female paramedics were here within 10 minutes and totally sorted my drug regime out so am now back on the morphine making sure I take an anti sickness drug 15 minutes before.

Can totally understand how people slide into mental health issues with long term debilitating conditions, and at least I will heal. I can't clean, walk my dogs, exercise, dress or wash myself easily, cook anything apart from toast, or drive.

I'm happier news I am 8 stone 7 but I don't recommend the misery/broken bones diet.

Iamblossom · 20/03/2019 08:08

Ha ha bet you are sorry you asked now!! Wink

EssentialHummus · 20/03/2019 08:20

blossom that sounds incredibly difficult, I'm so sorry you've had all these difficulties. Do you have a timeframe for recovery? And anything that you can do in the interim to keep yourself occupied?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/03/2019 08:23

oh blossom that sounds horrific but hopefully now the drugs are sorted you might start to feel a little brighter....

Iamblossom · 20/03/2019 08:36

Thanks chaps. Tbh @EssentialHummus I've been feeling so sick and in pain I have just lain on the sofa for most of the time, dozing. Yes @Fortythreeandfatasfuck I am hoping it is up from here!! Got post op appt this morning.

harriethoyle · 20/03/2019 08:47

Oh @blossom that sounds dreadful. You poor thing!

@oohmrdarcy and @hummus excellent SVs!

I'm back on it properly now. FD today, Friday and Sunday after unexpected cancellation of weekend plans... anyone with me? I see @yoursarcasm is Smile

Badgerbird · 20/03/2019 09:10

Morning all. Newbie here 👋🏽

Do any of you do 800 cals on FD? I've not got a lot to lose and for variety of reasons 500 wouldn't be a great idea for me. I started yesterday on FD and went ok.

I've been following for a few days and your stories are really inspiring!! *blossom sorry to hear you are having such a rough time.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 20/03/2019 09:26

essential that is great progress and highlights how we should look at the downward trends over a few weeks...

Hope your appointment goes well iamb

Welcome badger I think its absolutely fine to start with 800 fasts and see how you get on with it and then maybe work towards 500, especially if weight loss stalls? good luck!!!

OohMrDarcy · 20/03/2019 09:28

Blossom that sounds horrendous... hope you start healing and are in less pain very soon!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 10:40

Congratulations on your milestone SV, MrD

Losing 10% of your bodyweight is fab
and you are absolutely right: doctors say this has significant health benefits
Even losing 5% brings measurable benefits for those with a few stone to lose

Oh, blossom 💐 I am so sorry you are going through this, on top of your broken bones
Sadly, having to be on strong painkillers - more than briefly - often brings bad side effects
Let's hope you will soon turn the corner and the pain will subside, so you won't need these horrid meds

Welcome, badger 🙂

Some people do 800 FDs on 5:2
This gives really good loss if you are
either also doing daily low carb (not just on FDs)
or have a high TDEE (about 2400+), i.e. male / very tall / high BMI / young exerciser etc

If your TDEE is below about 1800, or if you find FDs very tough,
I strongly recommend having 3 miniFDs instead,

i.e. 800-1000 cals on 3 days, with same food rules as FDs: so, no alcohol or junk (cake, crisps, takeaways etc)
e.g. on Mon+Wed+Fri

OP posts: