5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OMG if it makes you feel better i'm 5'7 & was 15 stone 2 years ago, 14 stone when i started 5:2 and am currently 13 stone 3.

Morning all

A 1lb loss for me this week. Takes my total to 1st 10.4lb.... and half a pound from my big SV lol.

Maybe next week will be the one!

Well done on your FD and your exercise, lania
and on your FD, 43 Enjoy your weekend away

Congratulations on your SV, MrD
Stay focused and you'll reach that milestone very soon
That non-food reward is singing in your ear

That's a good first week, OMG, well done

On BF, Mosely & Varady suggest starting at 1000 cals, which might be more sustainable for you to allow on tough days
Otherwise, we've found 700 works well for longterm non-EBF

As you have a fair bit to go, you should lose well on 700-1000 FDs

Like MrD & many others here, divide up your goal into mini-milestones of 5kg / 10 lb, each stone lost and the big milestone of dropping a BMI class
Stay focused, celebrate your milestones and you'll reach goal

Well done mrd next week for sure :-)

I'm a bit peeved today, I was expecting a good loss as clothes feeling much looser and the 3 dresses I tried on as options for tonight just slipped straight up which has never happened, plus I've mfpd all week and had a good deficit but got on the scales and it said a bloody pound on, how the fuck does that even happen :-( anyway, I don't think I'm every going to get past this weight!

That said omg I'm 5ft 7in and started at 14st, I am now 11st 10lb so this does work and you'll soon have that off!

Anyway off on my night away, good luck weekend fasters

43 Lost inches mean lost bodyfat, which is the most important thing

Intermittent fasting can increase muscle without any increase in exercise, which can mean less fat but sts or even gaining
Stay patient and the scales will nearly always catch up 🙂

After losing a good chunk of weight, your body may pause for a while, to consolidate and rebalance
especially if this is a "set point" weight that you had for a long time in previous years.

Stay focused on the WOE, stay sensible on NFDs and it may take a few weeks to plateau-bust, you'll get a whoosh and things will start moving again

You know the drill 43, keep glugging the water, ignore the temp gain and it will soon bugger off again!

I know that feeling 43. It seems extra frustrating when you've been diligent about logging everything. But, the NSV of dresses slipping on easily is amazing. That's what other people notice, too - not the numbers. Also - that is one hell of a massive SV over the long-term. This thing really does work, huh?

I haven't weighed myself since my last FD, and will fast Mon and Weds this coming week.

It's been a tough week here. My 11mo son had to go under general anaesthetic on Friday. Just for a minor test, but was still stressful. Then that afternoon we got the news of the shootings here in NZ. The whole country has been deeply shaken. So, have to confess I haven't been thinking much about my eating habits. Not that I've let things go - just hasn't been on my mind. I will jump back in tomorrow. I don't foresee much of a loss this week, though - feel like I've plateaued a bit. I think what you said above is true for me, BigChoc. I realise I actually lost almost 4kg in the first three weeks, so I think my body is rebalancing and adjusting. Going to try to add some more exercise this week too, and improve my sleep/stop living off caffeine.

Thanks everyone, I have been this weight for a large part of my 30s so I'm hoping it is just a sticking point and I can get past it.... I felt fab in my dress last night

Oh fiddle what a stressful week you've had

Fiddle 💐 Such a stressful time for you

43 Noone knows your weight unless you tell them
They can all see you are slimmer.

If this is the weight you were for several years, then it is not surprising it is a "set point"
Fasting is the best method for lowering set points
So stay focused on the WOE as you have been doing and your body will eventually accept you mean it !

You keep drinking water too, MrD
To help nail your milestone

Oh fiddle, are you all ok now? My DS had to have a general anaesthetic a few weeks back, it's just awful isn't it. You've done well not to fall face first into a box of biscuits.

43 hooray for feeling fab, I bet you looked amazing with that confident glow

Hi all,

Sorry I've been a bit AWOL. I've still been reading but been v busy and not been well which has made posting tricky. Lots of great SV and NSV here. 43 - I'm sure you looked great in your dress and the number on the scales makes no difference to what people see, it's purely psychological (-torture! Ha). I have this discussion frequently with my aunty - my argument is I'd be happy to weigh 50 stone if I looked like a size 10 as no one knows the number on the scales. She has a very fixed scale target in her mind, though, regardless of size. Different strokes for different folks! - whatever keeps you motivated really!

Having said that though...I had a nice SV of my own which was getting back into the 'normal' BMI (only just, and right on 25 but I'm taking it!). This has been a good motivator and I'd like to focus over the next few weeks to try and lose another 3-4lbs if possible as I'm going away for the Easter hols and want slippage room before starting again afterwards!!! I haven't felt much slimmer yet and I think the next half stone will be critical for that.

FD today and Weds (possibly a B2B on Thursday).

Happy Monday everyone, good luck to those fasting today x

Morning all

Happy Monday

Fiddle - hope your DS has recovered from his GA, bet that was stressful for you.

Bigchoc I'm definitely glugging away - and no monday weight gain even after a massive roast on Sunday ( chicken, with carrots, brocolli, green beans, parsnips, cauli cheese ) and pudding for after - don't often do puddings really, but occasionally will do a big roast and pudding... .that is the only meal I had that day ( kids had supper! )

Scruffy - normal BMI is a massive milestone, well done!

NFD here today, DS has an inset day so we are having some quality time together this morning then he's off to his dads this afternoon.

FD tomorrow from head office I think.

well done on your SV scruffy that is fab!!

Mmmm, sounds like a lovely sunday mrd

NFD today as have pilates tonight and don't think I can face that on a FD, then fd tomorrow and friday. I'm going to try and focus less on the numbers, will see how I get on...

Good luck monday fasters

Morning all!

FD here- did a 6.30am spin class again and walked back home after dropping the DC at school (there and back totals about 45 mins of fast paced, very hilly walking). I'm still very achy from an exercise class yesterday, so spin was very hard work!

I'm making a butternut squash and bean soup, so planning on having a small cup of that for lunch and then dinner will be courgetti bolognese.

All the exercise and being a bit lighter is definitely making me feel a lot more energetic- even with the early start to go to the gym a couple of days a week.

Excellent SV scruffy, what a milestone! 43, I get the feeling I'm going a stall a little on the weight loss for a bit (ten stone was a bit of a sticking point for me before, though I did get through it after a few weeks), so I'm just focusing on how much better I feel, making sure I eat as much fruit and veg as possible, and working on my fitness.

The scales are just an indicator of how I'm doing- how I feel and how my clothes fit is more important. I'm planning on using the Boditrax again next week to see if there's been any change in the amount of fat and muscle, but I'm guessing that will be pretty slow going. As long as it's heading in the right direction I'm not looking for massive differences.

Congratulations on your milestone SV, scruffy
That's fab you're now in the healthy BMI class

You're right, most folk feel at their best somewhere in the middle of this range
The ideal BMI is very individual, depending on your frame size and musculature, also on your height - women 5'4" and under usually suit lower BMI than a 6-footer

Happy Monday, MrD
Good luck that this is the week you nail your next big milestone

Enjoy your Pilates, 43
That's usually a good class for abs and overall body toning

Your v early morning exercise routine is really impressive, earslaps

Have you tried this fasted, to maximise fat-burning even more after the ovenight fast ?
A double black espresso 10 mins before you start will help mobilise fat for use as fuel
For exercise of 60-90 mins, I find that works well for me

When I have my 8km cycle before gym, then I also have one of those tiny sugar-free probiotic yoghurts, 27 cals, which just suits me.

Fasting day today.

I really need to do something about weekends though and try to rein myself in. Too much time,too many temptations. Looked online the weekend and realised that my favourite muffins are 600 cals each. That was a shock.

Lost a bit last week which is good, but gained it all back over the weekend, which makes all of this pointless unless I sort myself out.

I don't know if it's will power,greed or whatever but I need to deal with it. It's frustrating and I'm angry at myself.

I'm fasting today too, dripping
Good luck to us both and to all the other Monday fasters 🙂

Don't beat yourself up about weekends:
most of us are greedy - it's an evolutionary survival trait !

Sugary treats are very moreish, very quick to eat ... but they are calorie bombs
A choc muffin and a fancy latte can be well over 1,000 cals

Not just sweet junk:
A 1-person Dominos pizza can be over 2,000 cals

I had this issue when I started - many of us did - of regular indulgent weekends during which I was eating back all the FD calorie deficit
I had to accept that I could no longer eat like a teenager - my body doesn't burn crap like it used to.

My method was to make either Saturday or Sunday one of my FDs for the week

If you don't want to go that far, then an extra miniFD to shorten the weekend is another tactic:
That's the same reasonably nutritious food rules as an FD - no alcohol, sugary treats, crisps or other junk - but with up to 1000 cals

What can also help is to mfp a typical weekend, so you can see all the calorie bombs & portion sizes
Then pick one big treat to enjoy (or 2 small ones) next weekend

Almost everyone can still lose if they choose
. either a big weekend sugary treat, like your 600 cal muffin, once per week,
. or larger portion sizes of the main weekend meals

Very late sign-in here - I hope bigchoc, dripping, scruffy (welcome back!), ears and any other Monday fasters have had good days.

fiddle that sounds incredibly stressful, is he on the mend now? I have an 18 month old and the (luckily very few) times she's been taken ill have been really frightening.

FD here today - no idea of total calories as I had lunch out with a friend. I ordered a sensible veggie frittata and salad though - rather than the bacon sarnie I was eyeing up! - and shared it with DD, and then just coffees with tiny amounts of milk. I'm brewing a cold so not sure I'll manage a b2b tomorrow, let's see.

I'm another one who battles with weekends. It doesn't always work but I try to say that I can have one treat rather than all the treats (and often the make or break is whether or not biscuits etc are in the house). A weekend FD might be the way to go actually - that's a good idea bigchoc. Otherwise I sometimes plan a mini on Thursday so I feel I have a bit more slack on the weekend.

Tuesday morning here and planning a FD but I’m unwell with a nasty cold (thanks kids) so I may bail.

Yesterday I was picking up the older two from swimming at 5 and I was horribly hungry and shaky and ended up eating 1/2 packet of my swimming daughters crisps then loads of salmon and beans at tea. I think it must be the virus, lunch was just a Mediterranean wrap so not super sugary.

Anyway, I’ll see how I go and if I feel terrible I’ll defer it.

Good luck to those finishing off the Monday fasts

Evening all

Well done to the Monday fasters am sure you've all rocked it.

An looking forward to tomorrow's FD, no clue why

Thanks for the kind words, all. DS is doing fine after the GA. Luckily he's not actually ill, just had to have the biopsy to rule out a syndrome that might be causing his constipation. It's unlikely, but they are pretty vigilant with checking, as it can cause graver problems if undetected.

Finished my Monday FD at about 700 cals - I'm finding this about right for me and doesn't seem to be affecting my milk supply. I felt eerily unhungry after dinner, which makes me think I might have underestimated cals. Then felt really bloated in the evening, which isn't usual at the end of TOTM. Tried to drink a heap of water and herbal tea. Will be very curious to weigh after my final FD this week, as I do think I've stopped losing. But, hearing those who have pushed through the plateaus is encouraging. I'm feeling much better in my clothes, and lighter in general. Just found out a good friend I haven't been in touch with for a while is also on the 5:2 wagon, so will be good to share experiences there too.

Well done on to all the other Monday fasters. I'm going to try to keep to TDEE a bit more carefully on my NFDs this week. Hard finding the balance...

Morning all
I need to start fasting again.
Posting here to remind me.
I'm waiting for some test results this week. If they are all good then will start again next week.
Need to lose 2-3 stone.
Need to be organised and plan FDs better

Morning All

wow earslaps your exercise posts make me feel tired just reading them! super fit!!!

Thanks bcf I am actually enjoying Pilates, trying to find another class locally so I can go twice a week but no luck as yet and I'm not sure I should be doing an at home workout just yet in case i'm doing things incorrectly??

Sarcasm weekends are tough but your slight gain will soon be off with 2 good FDs

nolonger and essential hope you are both feeling better soon

Well done fiddle and all the other monday fasters and welcome back smiled hope your test results go well.

FD for me today, the usual skinny latte to get me through to lunch which is a turkey salad from subway, soup or tuna steak and stir fry veg for dinner, not sure which yet

Good luck tues fasters

Good morning

FD here, I will have some smoked salmon and poached egg shortly, with a bit of watermelom, then a tuna steak and stir fry this evening. Chuck in a few cups of tea and that's 600 cal, which I would be very happy with.