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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
MozzchopsThirty · 26/02/2019 21:11

@TalkinPeece sorry to be dull but what's a sedentary TDEE?

TalkinPeece · 26/02/2019 21:13

Hi Mozz
In the TDEE calculator in BigChocs opening post, you can set your activity level .....
My sedentary TDEE is 1500
so any gym sessions give me more leeway Wink

MozzchopsThirty · 26/02/2019 21:18

Ah great Smile mine is 1535 and I normally stay under that on NFD
So I'll try and have one 'living it up' day per week
Although the alcohol may have to be 3 days 🙈

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2019 21:18

Oh thank goodness, MrD
such a relief for you about your DS
Now chill and have a good night's sleep

Well done on your FD, Lania
and Happy Birthday for tomorrow 💐

Well done on your FD too, Pot especially with that nasty cough
I hope you get better v soon

I recommend an early night
On your NFDs, concentrate on nutritious food with plenty of veg, to boost your immune system and keep drinking water.

Penguin When you're not hungry on NFDs, then it's good to stop eating, even if well under TDEE
There'll be other days when you want to eat a lot more than TDEE, which is fine too
It usually evens out, if you have generally healthy habits

That's a good template for losing, TiP
< lines up armed 🛰 overhead to monitor booze levels in TiP Towers 😏 >

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/02/2019 22:33

Phew indeed mrd hope the choc and fizz did the trick!!

mozz it's tough, I'm like you I love alcohol too..... wish I didn't.... I have lost 31lbs this last 12months doing 5:2 and drinking most weekends but I have found that I need to 'save' calories from my weekly nfds and try and have a fd on a Friday to limit the damage. Obviously 31lbs in 12months is slower than the average weight loss and some wouldnt be impressed with that but I've not felt deprived and I've still had loads of nights out with friends etc.... hope you manage to find your balance Grin

Nfd went well today although was right up to tdee, going to aim for 300 less tomorrow and Thursday then fd#2 Fri....

Well done to all the fasters, happy birthday for tomorrow lanika Cake Flowers

fiddletree · 26/02/2019 22:53

Thanks for the good advice on 5:2 while breastfeeding, everyone. I'm very inspired by everyone who's making this a real lifestyle thing, rather than just the temporary weightloss kick. I hope I have what it takes/feel like it's for me.

I finished my FD yesterday, and felt okay just a bit off. Not hungry exactly, just...weird and a bit airy. BF quite a bit overnight as my DS has a cold. Felt like death warmed up this morning, and was SO ready for breakfast. Weigh-in had me down 900g, though, and down a total of 1.6kg since Sunday. Woah. I'm impressed, though it kind of makes sense as I've felt a bit starved. I think I'm going to try to slow it down though, up complex carbs on my NFDs, etc.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2019 00:05

Well done on your SV, fiddle

Yes, if you feel hungry on NFDs, then do increase healthy foods
Also try to cut down on treats with added sugar, as these increase overall hunger

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/02/2019 07:14

Well done fiddle on the loss

EssentialHummus · 27/02/2019 07:43

Great news mrd.

Well done fiddle

Happy birthday lan FlowersFlowers, hope you have a wonderful day.

Finished my b2b yesterday, another small loss brings me down to 74.8kg/11st 8. Very happy with that. Lunch was a small soup with added veg, supper was a healthy ready meal with added veg.

Good luck to all Wednesday fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 27/02/2019 09:27

Morning all

You are all so bloody supportive, thank you! Flowers

My real life flowers (20lb reward) are arriving with my food shop this morning and better be as pretty as they looked online!

Lania - Happy Birthday! Enjoy your cake!

NFD here, fasting again Friday for me.

QuackingDuck1985 · 27/02/2019 09:29

Hummus - Well done on your B2B and your loss.

Box - Good luck for half term, ours was last week it didn’t go too well for me as I didn’t fast at all.

43 - I hope your NFD went well.

Darcy- Congratulations on hitting your mini target. 20lbs is fantastic.

Penguin well done on your FD.

BCF - After next week all the stresses will be over. Secondary school places come out Friday and that’s really stressing me out.

Harriet- sounds like you have a great week planned. You will look smashing in your dress.

Mozz - I would say try 5:2 and see if it works for you. If it doesn’t work you may need to make a few adjustments to your week by adding a mini FD or finding ways to reduce some calories somewhere. Small changes mount up over time so I would say give it a go.

Laniakea - Happy Birthday for today enjoy your cake.

Excellent news MrDarcy.

43 - I think you’ve done absolutely fantastic 31lbs is a lot to loose and like you said you’ve not deprived yourself. I would much rather that than be on a really strict diet and loose it quickly. Makes it easier for maintenance too as your not deprived of things.

Fiddle- Well done on your FD and your loss. That’s fantastic.

I’m waiting for my shopping to arrive, I’ve bought no crap at all and lots of chicken, fish and veggies so I will have a good week.

Good luck to everyone fasting today

PopGoesTheWeaz · 27/02/2019 09:54

Meh, had my weigh in this morning and am up a pound. Boo. Not utterly suprised but it's always disappointing. I have a night out with an old dear friend that I haven't seen in dozens of years tomorrow, but then I'll be good this weekend to try to make a bigger deficit this week than last.

43 that's very similar to me and I'm well proud of us both. I don't feel deprived and it feels sustainable. For me, if I'd done SW or something where I had to meticulously calorie count I'd have given up after a few months I'm sure.

GroovieGazelloo · 27/02/2019 11:35

All the best to everyone fasting today and Happy Birthday to you Laniakea.

Well done on your big losses Darcy Pop and 43. I’m sure you’ll be able to quickly remedy the little weekend gain Pop.🤗

Great about your FDs Penguin and Fiddle and also your B2B and SV too Hummus.

Good luck for half term Box, your NFD 43, and your stylish dress Harriet.

Mozz - I would also suggest giving 5:2 a go. I’ve learned a lot about my relationship to myself, my body and food, drink from 5:2. All good. 😊

Sorry to hear your half term didn’t go well Quacking . That said, I agree with sometimes having a break from fasting. I didn’t fast when I was away and took it as an opportunity to eat generally lightly whilst I was with friends or colleagues . Hope you get the results you’re looking for on Friday.

BCF - Always great to read your interesting feedback. Thanks for your continued help.

Here I’m back from a very busy time away with work. And I’m pleased with how I handled things food wise. Since I was last on here a few weeks ago, I’ve lost 2 kgs through a mixture or reasonable eating and drinking and 5:2ing when I felt comfortable to do it. I am feeling happier at seeing how I can integrate 5:2 into my lifestyle now. And I’m really pleased that my DH is on board now too. He doesn’t fast. But he seems to be following my eating style and is having less alcohol. He’s even secretly admitted that he’d like to lose a bit of weight too. Ssshhhh though - it’s a secret. 🤪

BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2019 12:12

Happy birthday, Lania 💐
Relax and enjoy your day

Congratulations on your SVs, Hummus, Groovie

Everybody loses at their own pace

wrt the effect of treats, 5:2 is the same as any weight loss WOE:
If you aren't in any hurry, then you can allow more treats

If you feel under time pressure for a big social event, then you can be stricter, for quicker loss
If you are a "hard loser", e.g. insulin resistant, PCOS, thyroid, etc then you may also need to be stricter than other folk, to lose at the same pace

Good luck for Friday, duck
I hope your DC get the school places you want

Enjoy your milestone reward flowers, MrD
They darn well ought to be as good in rl !

Good luck to the Wednesday fasters

OP posts:
Boxlikeahare · 27/02/2019 13:38

Excellent progress on this thread - I am really bad at doing what BCF is good at and acknowledging everyone individually because I am on my phone and can't see many of the posts while I write but I have read everything. Happy birthday, well done fasters, thank you BCF, 🌸🌸 all round really!

So, I haven't managed to fast but I am being sensible and have decided that will do for now. I am going for a good walk (four miles, hilly) everyday in this amazing weather and I feel much better than I did although my bum muscles feel like they have done some work!

I had another look at my ancient scales and realised that I had put the wrong batteries in them (whoever knew there was a CR16 and a CR32 which was twice the thickness Blush). Anyway, can I just tell you all that I appear to have lost 12lb since I last weighed myself (which granted was months and months ago).

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/02/2019 15:25

how lovely, enjoy your flowers mrd

yes quacking NFD was good yesterday and bang on today also (should hopefully manage to save 300-400 calories for the weekend) I get where you are coming from re: half term, its bloody easier to do 5:2 when working and not at home with DS. Fingers firmly crossed for friday for you!!!!

that's frustrating pop, any reason why it wasn't a loss? you are right, we should be proud of ourselves, high five to you for loosing that, are you maintaining now then?? Hope you have a lovely catch up with your old friend Smile

fantastic SV groovie and well done getting DH on board, the secret is safe with me Grin

enjoy the walks box and wow, fantastic SV there Grin

GroovieGazelloo · 27/02/2019 16:24

«If you aren't in any hurry, then you can allow more treats
If you feel under time pressure for a big social event, then you can be stricter, for quicker loss.
»
This is so obvious and yet so helpful for me right now BCF. 👍

I’d like to lose a few more kilos over the next couple of weeks before I go away again for work. The weather is going to get hot and I don’t like being overweight, feeling like I have to cover myself up when it’s hot.

I’m actually not particularly interested in food right now which is very rare for me. Because of my working at the moment, I don’t really have time to do much cooking .What’s great is that instead of going to the biscuit box I’m just sticking to cups of tea.

This is so unusual for me that I’d started to wonder whether I’m doing ok or not ! So what you posted above has helped me see that what I’m doing is fitting in with where I’m wanting to go. And I’m more comfortable now. 😊🤗😊

GroovieGazelloo · 27/02/2019 16:30

Hope you’re enjoying the half term with your DS 43. 😊

Great news about your weight loss and your “ repaired” scales Box. Ahh modern technology eh !😂

Boxlikeahare · 27/02/2019 16:35

I know Groovie 😂, I am the most practical person generally, a mathematician to boot and I didn’t realise my batteries were too slim (if only).

I had missed 31lbs - that is amazing 43, you should be very proud of yourself!

MozzchopsThirty · 27/02/2019 17:22

God this back to back FD is hard work

Yesterday ended on 485
Today will be 670 Sad

EssentialHummus · 27/02/2019 17:27

That’s totally fine mozz, see b2b definition up there^:

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

MozzchopsThirty · 27/02/2019 18:35

Ooh fabulous 🙌🏼🙌🏼 thanks for that

Well done to all fellow fastera today Smile

DontFundHate · 27/02/2019 20:59

Urgh so have had an awful few days. I knew this would happen, I'm such an all or nothing person. I need to see this as more of a lifestyle change. Starting afresh tomorrow with a NFD, but not snacking and will try to eat sensibly. thanks also for the BF info for another poster. I hadn't really thought about it but I bf my 15mo DS at night. He doesn't have much so didn't think it would matter too much that I'm trying 5:2 800 kcal FDs (not fast 800)

DontFundHate · 27/02/2019 21:00

I'm confused , so some posters here to 500kcal FDs and others 800? I do my two 800 FDs b2b, should I have an increased allowance?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/02/2019 21:19

Hope someone can clarify for you dont but it's usually 500cals for fds or 650 if doing b2b, usually allow more for bf but I'm not sure how much.... not helpful sorry

Managed a great Nfd here, had about 1240 cals (tdee is 1700) so managed to bank a good few hundred for the weekend Grin off to bed for 5.30am start (ugh!) Night all and we'll done weds fasters