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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2019 11:33

Congratulations on your SV milestone, MrD !
That's fab
Now enjoy your non-food reward

Welcome back after your break duck
I hope all is sorted now

Well done on your SV, Hummus
Sow & steady will get you there, at the pace of your individual body
It's a WOL, not a race

Don't worry about fasting, Box if your STBX is still lingering like a fart in a lift.
Just concentrate on healthy TLC NFDs:
No snacking, keep to NHS alcohol limits, sensible about food treats, lots of sleep and water.

Resist the snack table, pop !
Stay focused and you'll nail this FD

penguin Try to drink lots more water
Cashew milk, rice milk or oat milk are alternatives to cows milk, or even just skimmed milk,
re reducing caffein: I enjoy the "fake" instant coffee from the health food shop, different kinds, made from acorns or grain

For FD hot drinks, beef Bovril is a good alternative, only 10 cals per mug
It makes a great substitute for a soup starter

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2019 11:39

Sounds like you've already got in the fasting swing, succeed
Yes, especially to start with, it was wise not to try a b2b with yor exercise

Also, many people find their 2nd FD more difficult, even when it's separate

OP posts:
Laniakea · 26/02/2019 11:41

Lots of activity on the thread!

I’m fasting today - I did a three mile walk class this morning ... a month ago the one mile class was knackering, the three mile is easy now (and a lovely break from the HIIT which is evil).

Laniakea · 26/02/2019 11:46

Oh i’m someone who used to drink gallons of coffee - and only liked it with full cream milk - 100s of calories a day. I’ve weaned down to one black double espresso when I wake up & two more with milk during the day (60mls of milk each) that’s less than 100 calories & normal white coffee now tastes way too weak & milky. Your tastes do change quickly though it was a sacrifice to begin with!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2019 12:50

Excellent progress with your exercise, Lania
You are obviously getting much fitter now.

I've also been able to train myself re hot drinks:
I've never liked milk, but I used to gave lots of sugar, which I stopped dead - I soon got used to it.
Herbal tea has a subtle flavour which sugar was masking

I only glug down coffee 10 minutes before training, to boost fat mobilisation - so I don't mind how it tastes !

Ditto fizzy crap - even the diet stuff is unhealthy - I stopped that dead nearly 2 years ago and switched to far more water
Fizzy unflavoured water is OK, so I have that sometimes.

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/02/2019 12:51

woohoo mrd that's bloody amazing!!!!!

harriethoyle · 26/02/2019 13:59

I'm back!! Had a GLORIOUS long weekend of eating and drinking and celebrating and now buckling back down before my birthday party and, more importantly birthday party dress on Saturday.Grin

Within tdee today, fast tomorrow, IF Thurs. Parties Fri through Sunday. Elasticated waist band next Monday!!

Cake Cake Wine Gin Cake

Earslaps · 26/02/2019 14:00

For drinks- I got a Soda Stream for my birthday last year. I love having fizzy water and adding a squeeze of lemon or lime, a slice of cucumber or a sprig of mint (or a combination of those). It feels like a treat but is so healthy and easy.

I also drink green tea all morning, then switch to camomile for the evening. Then a cup of Miso soup or Bovril for 'lunch'.

MozzchopsThirty · 26/02/2019 14:40

But I don't want to be good all the time 😕
We go out a lot, particularly on the weekend, I can fast 2 days in the week and eat healthy but then I like to drink at the weekend and eat out

So what I'm asking is, is 5:2 for me if I can't stay eating healthy 7 days per week and drink within guidelines??

Earslaps · 26/02/2019 15:31

@MozzchopsThirty there are no hard and fast rules for 5:2 and lots of people will find their own way with it, but essentially you will need a calorie deficit over the course of the week to lose weight. So if you want to let loose on the weekends then you might find that you need to be a bit stricter about what you eat during the weeks.

However, BigChoc is right that if you want the weight to come off and stay off then you will be more successful if you do use 5:2 as a chance to make a change of lifestyle by reducing snacking, calories from drinks etc.

So a pound of fat is supposed to be equal to 3500 calories. Say your TDEE is 2000 calories, then eating that amount five days a week with 500 calories twice a week will mean a steady loss of nearly a pound of fat a week. If you fast twice a week and eat 2000 calories three times a week plus 3500 calories on Saturday and Sunday then you will be unlikely to see weight loss or fat loss.

Intermittant Fasting can be a great way to lost weight, plus it helps shed that weight from your middle more effectively than lots of other diets. But it's not a magic bullet and won't work if on average you are exceeding your TDEE over the course of a week/month/year.

MozzchopsThirty · 26/02/2019 15:49

Thank you

I try and stay within 1500 through the week
On Saturday I was up to 2600 (Chinese and Macdonalds)

My FD are generally 450-550

harriethoyle · 26/02/2019 16:07

@mozzchops I'm very similar to you. I fast 2-3 times a week, eat c.1450 cals 2-3 times a week and do what I like at the weekend. Am 6.5 kilos down from where I was this time last year Grin

harriethoyle · 26/02/2019 16:08

A Sunday fast is an excellent way to limit weekend damage IME

MozzchopsThirty · 26/02/2019 16:24

@harriethoyle that's great news
Well done on your loss

I'm pretty healthy when I'm at work
But I love weekends - especially lager filled weekends

EssentialHummus · 26/02/2019 17:00

I’m in between the two of you, harriet and mozz - I love some unhealthy food (and still consider McDonalds a treat) but barely drink (just don’t like the taste) and am trying to use 5:2 to curb mindless snacking. I remember being 27-28 and eating large/sharing bags of crisps by myself in one sitting (and then being surprised when my weight started creeping up 🤦‍♀️).

So I tend to prefer an extra FD/mini so that I don’t have to calorie count, but I also try not to go to excess non-stop during the weekend, because I’m motivated by the Tuesday morning weigh-in.

PopGoesTheWeaz · 26/02/2019 17:02

I did a few weeks of calorie counting when j fist started last year, including weekends. I didn't restrict what ibate or drank except on FD, but it gave me a much more accurate picture of where I was adding calories (spoiler alert: beer and cheese!)
So I'm now just careful about these problem areas (drink spirits instead! And limit cheese somewhat) and I'm still loosing. Not as much as I once was but I'm now in healthy BMI so think it's more to do with that than anything else. And also, like you I don't want to be good all the time so this is what makes it sustainable for me, and that's important too

MozzchopsThirty · 26/02/2019 19:13

I've actually managed only 445 today and did a 6k run tonight with ds2 on his bike!

I'm aiming for a B2B FD tomorrow as I'm child free thurs - sun so no doubt there will be some excess there

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2019 19:47

Mozz Any weight loss method requires a calorie deficit.
They differ in how this is achieved.

The healthy habits listed are because they help avoid eating back the FD deficit on NFDs, without having to mfp

Also, these threads have developed to consider longterm health, not just weight loss
That's possibly because several of us longterm 5:2ers are middle-aged and the old saying applies:

"if I knew I'd live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself" 😂

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2019 19:48

Noone follows all the healthy guidelines all the time, but the aim is to follow them most of the time,
to take care of the bod inside, as well as outside

OP posts:
Laniakea · 26/02/2019 19:58

"if I knew I'd live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself"

I like that! 🤣

All done on 470.

It’s my birthday tomorrow - I’m smaller & healthier than I was this time last year & that feels good - I will be eating cake though!

OohMrDarcy · 26/02/2019 20:06

Evening all

Well done to the fasters!

DS scan was fine (massive phew!) Its not the fatty lump or lymph node the gp thought it was, but some other kind of benign lump with skin and calcium etc in it! May or may not need to be removed but nothing concerning.

I'm celebrating tonight with a glass of prosecco and a curly wurly as my supper - definitely a meal rather than a snack ahem.... well within TDEE though

Laniakea · 26/02/2019 20:30

Excellent news MrD!

PissPotPourri · 26/02/2019 20:35

That's great MrD, these things are very worrying when they occur.
Well done everyone on steely resolve and various victories.
I'm ill today, harbouring a chesty cough which started with a sore throat on Friday and has culminated in me losing my voice. DH is thrilled. Hmm
Regardless, I'm making the most of feeling determined and have achieved a fd today. Nothing until a low calorie Glorious soup at lunch and two poached eggs with broccoli for tea. Black coffee and liquorice tea throughout and over 2l of water.
Looking forward to breakfast tomorrow!

TalkinPeece · 26/02/2019 20:36

Mozzchops
You might be able to make my weekly plan work for you ....
Monday = 500 calorie fast
Tuesday = NFD at sedentary TDEE less 10%, no matter how active you are
Wednesday = as Tuesday
Thursday = as Monday
Friday = sedentary TDEE
Saturday = live a bit
Sunday = TDEE

I have cut down to one extravagant meal a week but still drink more than BigChoc approves of Wink

SmallFastPenguin · 26/02/2019 20:39

That's great MrD
I am still not feeling too hungry, was going to allow about 1600 cals but I have only had 1100 so far and I think I am going to stick at that. May eat more tomorrow as I have visitors.