5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Hullo Earslaps
I remember your dress size successes

I'm still bumbling around the higher end of where I should be and having my knee utterly nadgered at the moment does not help but its gardening season again so I'll start eating more salads and being outdoors when I'm not working.

I'll see if I can get back to "happy weight" by my birthday in April ....

Just had my dinner, oh my gosh - halloumi on a FD seems like such a treat, and was delicious with my veggies!

Kitchen will be staying open long enough for me to have a cup of tea about 6ish but thats me done other than that...

Yum.

This will be a good week - I can feel it!

earslaps - I annoy my youngest with that joke every time I cook halloumi

43 - glad to see you are firmly superglued back to the wagon!

TiP - enjoy the beginning of gardening season!

I couldn't resist the joke after you posted about halloumi @OohMrDarcy

I've just had my dinner- chicken tray bake, so a chicken thigh, two small slices of chorizo and a ton of vegetables roasted in a smidge of olive oil. I haven't counted the calories too carefully but it should come in under budget.

Feeling nice and full but looking forward to my homemade yogurt with granola and raspberry chia jam for breakfast tomorrow.

I'll sip on chamomile tea for the rest of thee evening or sparkling water with a splash of lemon juice.

Well done to all the fasters today.

I decided to have my Fd today too. I wasn't quite sure about starting on a Monday but since I made it through to after my lunch shift at work without anything except coffees I thought I would go for it.
Not sure my dinner was the best choice I had one sausage and veggies then I had a cup of Greek yogurt just now so that uses up all my cals with the milk for coffee.

It might be a bit hard to make it through the rest of the evening without any snacks but I will do my best with just some hot drinks and maybe go to bed early.

Hi Guys...

I'm sneaking in to say hello and I'm so so sorry for not sticking about in Jan.. it just got too crazy for me!! I wanted to come on and say that maintenance is working!! I've had to go buy a second set of 'slimmer' jeans and pants and bra!!

I wanted to share that once you are at your 'ideal' weight it doesn't really take that much to maintain as all the good habits big choc taught about not snacking and not boozing cut out a large chunk of the over eating calories. I think my stomach is smaller now too and handling smaller food quantities.

I want to try and post more often, but in case I don't I'm sending all my old friends and new posters alike much love!!

Well done all the fasters hood work
Fd finished here on around 540cals, cup of tea later and that's it.

Wow stir lovely to hear how well you are doing, very motivating....

Bloody spellchecker always changes good to hood..... stoooppid phone!

Ok, 1st FD almost done and it wasn't as bad as I thought, although I've had a banging head most of the afternoon!

Unless something catastrophic happens between now and bedtime I should end the day at 550 calories which I didn't think I'd even get close to.

Breakfast was just a lovely cup of tea which I actually savoured rather than gulping down with breakfast.
Lunch was spinach, tomatoes baked with an egg.
Tea was a tuna steak with vegetable stir fry with loads of ginger and garlic. I didn't even miss the carby noodles or rice!

I've had a couple of handfuls of popcorn and am going to settle down with my last brew of the day and an early night.

The good thing about today is that I felt a lot more motivated- probably my brain trying to keep itself busy.
Unfortunately I was made redundant in December so I've done a lot of sitting, wallowing recently. Today, I've done a lot of sorting and clearing instead!

Evening all. Back from an amazing ski trip, where the usual amounts of 🍷 and delicious food were consumed. The long ski days seem to have combatted it however as don't appear to have gained.

Did a 1200 day yesterday and a 1300 day today to try and reset. Will see how I get on. Fasting today as well as first day back at work seemed like too much of a punishment.

Welcome back blossom, sounds like you enjoyed your trip!

Sounds like a great start succeed

43, you're back on it!!

Well done penguin

Great motivation stircrazy, thanks! Do keep posting to keep us motivated when you can!

I have literally stuffed my face and drank since Friday

Is there any benefit to doing 3 FD together now?? I feel like I need to starve, I feel disgusting

Hello all! hoping it's okay for me to hop on this thread as a complete newbie. It's so inspiring to read all the positive stories here. I'm sort of dipping my toes in, but am keen to jump all the way!

I don't have a huge amount to lose, just a stone probably, but it's affecting my confidence. I had my second baby 11 months ago, and unlike the first time, have hung on to a lot of the weight. I'm 6kg or so above my pre-pregnancy weight. It's not a massive amount, but I'm not very tall, so it means I avoid certain clothes, and I just feel a bit tubby around my back and stomach. I'm still BFing, which is why I'm a bit hesitant about jumping in completely, I guess.

I bought MM's book on Sunday after weighing myself and seeing I'd regained 2kg (after feeling smug that I'd lost that weight over a month or so without really trying). Since buying it, I've stopped eating between meals, have reined back completely on sugar and carbs (apart from a small piece of dark choc a couple of times), and am trying to do 12:12. I've done three days, and though am not currently calorie counting, felt pretty hungry and reckon I probably clocked in at around 1000 cal each day. I immediately dropped 0.3kg, then another 0.6 the next day, so was feeling pretty great, but I seem to have gone back up 0.2kg this morning.

I know this is VERY early days, but is this normal? Is everyone weighing every day? Since I'm BFing, I guess there's probably a bit of variation depending on how much I've fed, and how much milk is on board at that moment. I'm a wee bit wary of strict calorie counting as I have a tendency to get a bit obsessive, and also because I'm cooking for kids and DH and find it quite hard to account for everything. I also don't really want my 7yo daughter to see me "dieting", as such, so don't want to skip dinner (will just cut out the carb part for me).

For FDs i think I'll aim to skip breakfast, which is much more manageable, and keep to lunches that are within 300cal. Then have usual meal (but with portion control, no carbs). I am trying this today and it feels surprisingly easy so far (tho only 10am!).

Any advice? Sorry this is so long - I'm a chronic overtyper! Anyone else trying to do this while BFing? I'm just wondering if it will still work with the wee bit of flexibility I'm trying to bring to it, or if the weight rise this morning is a sign that it's not really going to work for me.

That's fab you are maintaining so well, stir with healthy habits

succeed Well done on your 1st FD

To help avoid headaches in future,1 teasp Marmite mid-morning & mid-afternoon
and also drink LOTS of water

Well done, earslaps, MrD, 43 and all the other fasters

earslaps, MrD After your halloumi joke ... don't give up the day job !

Your menu is OK so far, Penguin, but not much food if you are near 500 calories
Did you have a lot of milk with your drinks ?
Try without, or with almond milk, which much lower cal

Try to break the snacking habit on FDs and NFDs too - it makes you hungrier and you consume higher total calories over the day.
If you must nibble on something, then raw carrots / celery / cucumber are v low cal - but don't have any dips with them.

Mozz After an indulgent weekend, it's much better to resume fasting sensibly, rather than beating yourself up and going to extremes

Don't have 3 consecutive FDs
If you want a kickstart, you could have 3 non-consecutive ones, if you can manage that
The main thing is to develop permanent healthy 5:2 habits on the NFDs between
So work on sensible NFDs, including at weekends

Welcome, fiddle 🙂
Since you've read Mosely's book, I recommend you also read the OP - lots of practical info there

OK, some answers:

1. Weight fluctuates naturally from day to day, even when not dieting: undigested food, temporarily retained water for carbs, homronal swings etc So don't worry about figuring it out

To monitor weight, the most reliable method is weekly, the morning after FD2
Weigh naked, 1st thing in the morning, after loo, but before eating or drinking anything

For more reliability, look at the trend over 2-3 weeks, which should be downwards

2. If you are BFing, then you should not do Fast800; just do 5:2 So only 2 FDs per week, not 3 and regard the other 5 days as "maintenance days", on which you don't binge, but also don't try to lose

Keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals,
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

3. BFers get more calories on FDs:
   EBF: have 1000 cals
   BF: have 700 cals - but it's fine to have 1000 if you need them, especially when you are starting 5:2

4. On FDs, have plenty of protein - fish or eggs are especially good -
   and fill your plate with different veg, so your DC won't notice you are eating fewer calories

Start each day with a glass of water and keep drinking throughout the day,

Thanks so much BigChoc, that is incredibly useful and reassuring. Heaps of great info. Yes, I don't think I could manage the fast800 without affecting my milk supply, so am going to give the 5:2 a good try.

Good advice on filling plate with veg so DC don't notice any difference. Today went well. I was really hungry after dinner (fish and big salad), but the hunger seems to have dissipated after half an hour. Going to have a peppermint tea and hang tough

@fiddletree I started 5:2 when DS2 was about a year old so I was still bf. I found 500 calories difficult so started a bit higher and tapered down. He was only feeding overnight.

Once I stopped the weight fell off, as my body seems to hang on to fat and fluid (I put on more weight bf than pregnant!).

But generally good fast days and cutting out mindless eating, increasing water intake and eating more veggies and good fats worked for me. I reduced my carbs but didn't give them up. I find the fasts very helpful for reminding me that I don't need to snack. If you eat decent sized meals with plenty of fibre and protein you will be fine until your next meal.

I hope everyone is doing really well. I will catch up with some posts later on.

After a stressful couple of weeks and having half term off fasting I’m back on the wagon and thread and have 8 lbs to loose.

Good luck to everyone fasting today

Morning all, signing in for day two of a b2b. Weighed this morning and had a small loss, in line with my usual pattern.

ear, fiddle I also put on more weight BFing than pregnant, and didn't lose a thing until DD weaned (luckily for me she weaned herself at 12 months). At that stage I don't think I was overeating - it felt like my body was holding on to this fat.

Hello fasters 👋. Half term here and I am not sure about fasting but still reading H is still about, leaving properly next week and I am finding it really tough - am not an emotional eater but can’t seem to get my head into fast mode either.

Hopefully this week won’t be disastrous.

morning everyone, god it felt good to wake up this morning feeling back in control after a successful FD just need to have a good nfd day today..... I'm taking it one day at a time this week

mozz don't try and do too much, just draw a line under it and move on and nail your FDs and NFDs this week

Welcome fiddle and good luck

blossom your holiday sounds fab, welcome back

quacking hope the stress has eased for you now

sounds like you are having a tough time box why not just focus on healthy NFDs until things are a little calmer next week

B = skinny latte
L = lovely salad from over the road which has chicken breast, olives and potato salad, plus a yogurt
D = no idea yet but will have about 750cals to play with

Good luck tues fasters

Morning all, after yesterdays successful FD and this mornings secret weigh in... I may or may not he in a position to confirm that I'm now nearly 1lb under pre birthday which also means I may or may not have hit my 20lb mini goal

Thanks everyone I was very pleased to get my fast done. I did not feel too hungry, but I think that may have been fluke and just not a very hungry day.

BC yes I do drink a lot of milk in my tea and coffee, another problem I have is drinking too much coffee I keep trying to reduce or switch to decaffeinated drinks but end up back on the caffeine. I do find the hot drinks helpful if I am wanting something to eat though so its good in that way. Dh has a thing about almond milk being bad for the environment so that is banned. I am now trying measuring out my milk and making sure I only have 200mls a day.

Secret high five to mrd

Morning all!
Had a brilliant nights sleep last night, I could have ploughed on and done a back to back today, but I have yoga later today. Last time I tried to do yoga after not eating much I felt rotten and had to sit down and chill out for a while.
Also, I'll be staying at my parents tonight (baby sitters while I go to yoga) and my dad will be cooking my tea, so won't be in control of what I eat without totally insulting him.
That's why I like the idea of this plan - you can pre plan your fast days around other events!

hello. day 2 of B2B and really feeling it this morning and of course the snack table is overflowing. Realised also that would have been better to spread my fasts this week as DH is out tomorrow night, and i've been invited over to a friend's for a drink this evening, but I was over 500 yesterday so must try my best to just stick with it.

last week I was ill so didn't want to push myself and just did 2 minis and then was away for a long weekend where I both indulged a bit (though nothing crazy) but also walked non-stop so hopefully it will all even out.