5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Fasting today.

Also trying to recover from a HIIT class ... o h m y f u c k i n g h e l l

Massively fell off the wagon last night after a long day at child’s activity competition. Was exhausted and so hungry. But actually, it’s ok. Weighed the same this morning as yesterday morning (hadn’t ‘been’ for a few days - sorry if TMI) and had only eaten 250 really good calories up to dinner. I’m not entertaining the notion of a ‘cheat day’. Back on the 800 tomorrow (today will be a half-way day). The thing I am noticing most is how my energy is up and down. I could sleep right now. Normally I’d eat something for a burst of energy to get me through the next task. Then plummet again. That’s the real benefit of this way of eating I’m finding.

I’m certainly thinking about the ‘value’ of calories now. Raw spinach, a medium hard boiled egg and 50gr smoked salmon was my take away breakfast yesterday and it was lovely. Normally it would have been a lovely large skinny latte and chocolate twist but actually I don’t want that anymore.

Lania Plenty of water and a walk today will help ease those muscles
then a good night's sleep

That's great you are forming healthy eating habits, O4FS

I recommend you also get in the habit of early nights on Fast800, because your body needs extra sleep:
IF is like HIIT but with food, so it does make your body work harder at times
and a daily 800 cals really ramps up the effects.

Hello all!

I've been reading through this thread over the last couple of days, and tomorrow will be day one for me giving this a go!

I've always been slightly in the overweight bracket according to my BMI, but now I'm hurtling well in to the overweight category with a BMI of 27.9 :( So, I seriously need to do something about it! To get back in to the healthy zone I need to lose 21 pounds. My lifetime goal, is to get in to single figures - even if that's 9st 13, just seeing that 9 on the scales would be amazing! That would be a 38 pound loss.

I tried calorie counting using MFP a few years ago before having my kids and it worked well, however, for some reason I cant get the motivation to stick this time. So, I think 5:2 might be the answer - I have the will power to be very strict with myself for a short while but the novelty soon wares off, so the flexibility of this seems ideal!

I'm pretty excited to start this, but also a little nervous. My first fast day will be tomorrow. So my concerns, if you're able to offer any advice:
Should I go straight in at 500 calories, or should I start at a higher amount and work down?

I couldn't imagine saving all of my calories for just one meal in the afternoon/evening. I would be happier having a couple of very low calorie meals - Is there any staple go to lunches and dinners or snacks you'd recommend I stock up for? Got my shopping day planned for tomorrow morning.

I'm very nervous about feeling rotten due to low blood sugar, I hate feeling out of control. If I was to start feeling shaky, what's the best thing to do/eat to help get back to normal as fast as possible?

Do you use MFP to track? What do you have your normal daily calorie intake set as (I'm prepared to be shouted at by MFP for not eating enough on FDs) but my MFP is currently set at a weight loss of 2lbs per week, and a daily intake of 1200. Should I change my settings so that it works out my TDEE allowance?

Think that's it for the moment - wish me luck!!

Welcome, succeed 🙂
That's great you feel excited at starting
Good luck on your 1st FD tomorrow

FDs
No need to have all your calories in 1 meal, 2 small meals are fine, with black coffee or tea for breakfast
If you feel worried about 500 cals, you could try weeks 1-2 at 800 cals and have 3 small meals

Do NOT eat back any exercise calories on FDs

Base meals on protein with masses of different veg,
plus optionally a small portion of wholegrain carbs, not white rice or mash (too high GI)

Only have fruit as part of a meal, not on its own and only 1 portion per FD atm

NO alcohol or sweet junk or crisps.
AVOID fruit juice, dried fruit, breakfast cereals, cereal bars including Naked type
Restrict flavoured fizzy drinks - even diet ones - to maximum 1 can / 330 ml total per day

Start each day with a glass of water and keep water with you so you can keep drinking all day.

Plenty of FD recipe ideas in the links under "How to Start" in the OP
Ideal foods are fish - prawns, salmon, tuna in brine, not oil - or eggs
Also lean meat - not processsed - or skinless chicken breast

If you are worried about feeling weak between meals, have hardboiled eggs in the fridge
or if you need to crunch something, then raw carrot / celery / cucmeber are v low cal

• do NOT use dips with them, as this significantly increases calories AVOID biscuits, cereal bars

To help avoid feeling weak, glug a teasp Marmite mid-morning and mid-afternoon - even if you hate it, glug it back like medicine
It replenishes salt & minerals that can be low while your body hasn't yet adapted to fasting, which can cause headaches or weakness.

NFDs

If you like to use mfp, that's fine, but change your settings in mfp, because that 1200 is NOT for 5:2
Instead, use Mosely's TDEE Calc which is more reliable than most
He recommends that exercisers calculate with one activity level lower than they think

Don't eat back calories via gadgets, or you'll be eating back twice.

On NFDs, try to develop 5:2 healthy habits longterm, even at weekends:

• NHS alcohol limits,
• NEVER snack / graze between meals,
• have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
• lots of water & veg
• cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

That is so helpful Big Choc

I’m done 470 (coffee + milk x2, shakshuka/two eggs & miso soup)

Still utterly knackered from the HIIT class! Bath & (very) early night planned.

IfAt - I try to do a couple of NFDs at my TDEE at goal (1200 - cos i’m short & lazy) the rest at current TDEE (1600) it gives a bit of extra flexibility.

Welcome newbies, and well done to the weekend tasters.

My peace is over and the DC are back from their dads, love it really as I miss them when they are gone!!

I wouldn't say I owned the dancefloor today, but I certainly remembered my moves and kept up with all the new ones! Came home with a sense of nausea which I suspect is like motion sickness from all the spinning, but it was as much fun as I remember - and certainly kept the heart rate up too

Well done on your FD, Lania
Early nights are always a good idea

Great moves on the dance floor, MrD
That's very HIIT and will have boosted your morale too, getting out like that
Make it a habit !

succeed I suggest you stick to your full TDEE for at least the first couple of weeks
but once you get used to fasting, it is a useful tactic, as Lania says, to aim for goal TDEE on a couple of NFDs per week.

As well as boosting loss, it helps you adjust to the lower TDEE you'll have at goal weight.

However, do eat up to your full TDEE on at least 1 NFD per week, to maximise your metabolic rate

succeed and any newbies starting tomorrow:

If you want to monitor progress, you need to establish your baseline measurements early tomorrow

I recommend you
1st thing in the morning, after loo but before eating or drinking anything

• weigh yourself naked on a hard level surface - not carpet.
  . Switch on the scales and count to 3, so they have time to balance, then step on - don't jump
  . Keep still and don't lean to the side or back / front

• measure waist (at narrowest point, about 2" above the navel) and hips too.

Urgh, any advice? It's half term here, got plans to be out all week except today and tomorrow - that's when I was going to fast. DS2 was up all night, inconsolable, we all have colds, I don't feel great! Should I just give up on 5:2 for today? Or is there some damage limitation I can do? Thanks!

No wonder you're shattered, Dontfund ! I hope your colds go asap.

Just make today a healthy miniFD (sub-1000) or even just a TLC sub TDEE NFD,
i.e. keep the same food rules as FDs: No alcohol, no junky food and especially no sugary junk, no takeaways
Concentrate on nutritious food to support your immune system, so plenty of veg in your meals
and keep drinking water

As always, try to keep 5:2 healthy habits on all NFDs this week, including when out:

NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals,
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

I'm fasting today
Who else is in the Monday fasting gang ?

Crikey, this week is 15-16 C, amazing for February
So plenty of sunny Rhine walks for me.

I'm in for today, was going to go for tomorrow but remembered DD has a hospital appointment and therefore need to not be fasting, if it's bad news I might need a latte! (90% sure its fine 🤞)

Anyhow, I'm in for today!

Good morning! Fasting here too bcf. We are also having a lovely sunny Monday in south London today, so will head to the park playground with DD. We’ve had a pretty difficult few days illness-wise, so I’m happy that the weekend wasn’t a write-off and that we all ate good meals.

Hope all fine mr, fingers crossed.

Thank you @big, very sensible. My FD consisted of skipping breakfast and then healthy lunch and dinner totalling 800kcal, so I think I'll have a healthy breakfast this morning and stick to my meal plan otherwise

morning everyone.... back on it after my massive fall off the wagon (that feels like its been since xmas!) FD today and a clean slate given as we as a head wobble, and I'm back in the zone I have a girlie weekend away mid march and then a holiday in the sun end of May that I'm channelling as my motivation... Planning fd 2 for friday

Hope everyone is enjoying this beautiful weather, so nice to have lovely sunshine. Well done on all the SVs and NSVs I've missed.... and good luck to monday fasters.....

Hi All,
I'm starting 5:2 again after a long period off.

I used to 5:2 back in about 2013 (I recognise @BigChocFrenzy and TiP from those days), but I actually stopped as I moved house, got into exercise a lot and found even on 6:1 I was still losing weight. Then, of course, life got in the way, DH works away a lot etc. So I've put on nearly a stone of the two stone I lost initially (though bizarrely I have only put on one dress size of the 4 I lost)!

So I've decided to get back on the 5:2, started a few weeks ago but didn't fast over half term (just did a couple of 16:8s instead). I'm not looking to lose weight quickly, just want to feel a bit more energetic again. I'm also not planning to measure my weight too much, just go on how my clothes feel and my energy levels etc. Hopefully I'll switch back to 6:1 once I feel at my fighting weight.

I've already found that doing the fasts means I'm less inclined to snack or have large portions the rest of the time. Plus, it forces me to limit my alcohol consumption a bit more as I can't drink on a FD or the day before.

Today is a FD. I was up early to go to a 6.30 spin class, so I had some BCAAs and Super Greens to give me energy for that (so maybe 60 calories), then I'll have a miso soup and a spoonful of sauerkraut at lunch and haven't decided on dinner yet, but some sort of protein with tons of salad.

Food luck to all others on a FD!

I hope all goes well at the hospital tomorrow, MrD 💐

Sounds a good plan, fund

You did really well to cut short that wobble, 43
Now you're back in your fasting groove.

Welcome back, Earslaps
I remember you too, of course

Since you were 5:2ing, TiP & I have learned a lot about what helps weight management with fasting

• basically using the NFDs to develop longterm sensible habits

i.e. keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals,
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

This time, once you reach goal, maybe 13:1 or 6:1 would suit you for maintenance
or even just daily 12:12 and the healthy habits above

Good luck to Hummus, MrD, earslaps and all the other Monday fasters ! 🙂

Well done 43 you didn't let yourself fall off the wagon completely and reigned it back!

Lunch for me today is soup with a slice of bread to dunk, and dinner will be halloumi grilled with loads of veg - really looking forward to it for some reason! Normally only have halloumi in bbq season

Welcome back Earrslaps

thanks for the thoughts all for DS... he has a tiny lump on the back of his neck, first noticed September time but being male didn't mention it again - I assumed it had gone ages ago until I accidentally poked it when he was washing his hair! GP doesn't think its anything serious but getting it scanned to be safe... fingers crossed all will be fine - but you know the way it is, I'll worry until I know for sure!

Thanks for the welcome back @BigChocFrenzy and @OohMrDarcy- fingers crossed all goes well for your son.

What did the cheese say when he looked in the mirror? Halloumi

Thanks for the reminders BigChoc I did so well for a while then it all just crashes down sometimes! Luckily, at the moment I tend to be fairly lucky that I can eat a lot without gaining too much due to my constant fidgeting! But as I'm approaching the big 4-0 later this year I know my days of getting away with it are numbered.

fingers crossed its nothing to worry about mrd
welcome earslaps and loving the joke

enjoy your sunny walks bcf we need to make the most of it while we can...

FD going well I'm pleased to report, I'm harnessing the feeling of hunger instead of giving in!!