Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2019 22:06

Very few fasters afaik on these threads have tried bone broth, cheee
more popular with hardcore paleo fasters, especially male bodybuilders.

I could never be bothered, tbh, as you need to make it from scratch

Anyone tried it ?

OP posts:
Cheeeeislifenow · 17/01/2019 22:10

I ask because my local health food store are selling an organic home made broth, it's meant to be full of protein.
I don't think I could make it myself, it takes an age.

JcHcks · 18/01/2019 07:14

Well I've lost a pound. Pretty gutted as I was hoping to lose 2 ☹️ but suppose I wasn't strict enough on my FD. Try harder next week!!

Cheeeeislifenow · 18/01/2019 07:24

@jc
A pound is still a loss well done!

Iamblossom · 18/01/2019 07:27

Well I finished on 1150 yesterday so still a deficit. Shows I am still not back into the swing of two FDs a week but I might just see how I go with one a week and some careful days like yesterday.

Weigh in Monday will see if I am on a downward direction. Anything under 9 will be a win.

Good luck anyone fasting today, you are made of sterner stuff than me.

I am going to try a gentle gym work out with some weights and squats and lunges this morning as per the advice of my own personal trainer, her name is BigChocFrenzy, highly recommend. Apparently she has a job and many hobbies although you wouldn’t know it the amount of time she spends encouraging and supporting us all on here Flowers

Iamblossom · 18/01/2019 07:28

Agree @jc a loss is a loss, bank it

I always weigh on a Monday as after the weekend must be my highest weight of the week.

snailhunter · 18/01/2019 07:39

Well done cheee! Never tried bone broth myself. Sounds quite revolting but I am willing to be convinced!

No loss today - STS for me but TOTM this week so not bothered - have enough experience doing this WOE to not feel worried about a week when overall trend is down. Off to have lovely freezing walk with dog!

quackingduck222 · 18/01/2019 08:12

Snail well done on your NSV.

Blossom- Soubds like you had a very good Mini well done.

JcHcks- Well done on your FD, you’ve done really well I really wouldn’t worry about the crisps. It will get easier. Well done on loosing a lb, it all mounts up over time.

Harriet- Well done on your NFD.

Good news Groovie, and 1kg is a great loss.

LittleMoon - Well done on your FD

Cheese - Well done on resisting all the cakes and what lovely NSVs.

Mickey- Don’t be too hard on yourself you’ve still done great.

Pumper- Have you been using MFP for a while? I very rarely log now as you do get used to the amount of calories, I tend to only scan new products occasionally but haven’t logged a full day for months.

Green - Well done on your FD, if you suffer with headaches try a spoon of marmite.

Darcy- Well done on staying Unser TDEE.

My FD went well, was starving at 9:30 and didn’t think it was going to happen but got busy and soon forgot about it. One thing I’ve noticed is my skin has become much clearer overnight my spots have disappeared.

Good luck to everyone fasting today

OohMrDarcy · 18/01/2019 09:20

Morning all

Feeling much better after a good nights sleep and checking in for my Friday FD.

Well done on all the lovely SVs / Successful FDs / good news - everything!

GroovieGazelloo · 18/01/2019 11:19

Hello All Smile,

Hope your days have got off to a good start and good luck to all the FDers today, including OohMrDarcy (Glad you got a good rest – that should help).

Well done on your FD yesterday Green, LittleMoon , JcHcks ( great on the pound loss too ) quackingduck222 – great you didn’t cave in the morning and Pumper ( hope you got the SV you were looking for).

Iamblossom and HLBug Good one on yesterday’s careful mini days.

Snailhunter- hope you and your dog enjoyed the freezing walk. Like Cheeeeislifenow, I also like mapping my food and enjoying where I’m going ( though I don’t do it every time).

Hope your headache’s gone now greenelephantscarf.

Great NSVs Cheeeeislifenow. I’m hoping someone will notice my weight loss when I go training next week. By the way, your yesterday’s lunch sounded yummy. Smile

And as I wave to everyone else, once again, thankyou for your all your help and also for your kind words, BigChocFrenzy I am definitely sitting more comfortably now ! Grin

And now, I’ll begin… Yesterday, in my neck of the woods, I read a bit of the 800Fast book and found it interesting. Some of it felt like revising past stuff which did me no harm. Some of it is new and I like the stuff about the Mediterranean diet. That definitely fits in with my lifestyle – though more as the seasons will start to change. I live in France and soon I’m going training on the Med coast and as I won’t be handling any part of the cooking, I’m glad to know that I’ll have plenty of choice so that I can carry on my way of eating. Wink

greenelephantscarf · 18/01/2019 11:36

headache is gone

I hate marmite but have a couple of mugs of bouillon on fast days.
maybe it's just stress tbh. work and life in general is manic atm

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 12:30

Good luck any Friday fasters !

Well done on your SV, JC
Why be upset at not getting 2lb ? It's a win.
iirc, you have a v low TDEE, so 1lb is doing well

Cheee if the bone broth is already made for you and affordable, then I suggest try it next FD
Report back please, because noone else has reported on trying this and it would be interesting

Check the label for calories and whether it is per 100ml or per portion - which may be an odd amount and not the full jar.

That's good you are both feeling fit again, MrD, green

and that you are still sitting comfortably, groovie
To avoid rebunging yourself, keep the moderation when it comes to portion size of the different veg, or starches
and keep drinking loads of still water.

You can ignore the scales during totm, snail
They only whisper depressing lies in your ear.
(thank goodness totm is many years behind me - don't fear the meno !)

That's a very good sub-TDEE NFD, Blossom
I'm v flexitime wfh, pt (part time) hence why I can keep an eye on you all 😏

Now, my drone is letting me watch you on those exercises for good form 😂

For squats, poke your bum back as if you were hovering above a dubious loo seat.
Keep back straight and weight on heels

For lunges, don't let your front knee get in front of that foot
Also keep a straight back

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 12:40

I've had a long early morning cycle and then an hour's spine flexibility class in the gym

It's a glorious sunny day on the Rhine - I look right down on the path from my windows
So after lunch has settled I'll enjoy a lovely long walk by the Rhine 🙂

btw, I've found some glorious frozen veg fries - carrot, parsnip, beetroot - which I mix with sweet potato fries
and bake in the oven, along with salmon & cod in another tray with loads of garlic cloves drizzled with algal oil.
Then I'm adding some additional frozen mixed veg (6 different ones in mustard sauce) to make a very lazy but healthy NFD lunch

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 12:41

Well done on your SV and skin NSV, duck

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 18/01/2019 13:13

2lbs off here!

Ta1kinPeace · 18/01/2019 13:21

1lb loss this week which I'm happy with.

For those with a load to lose, remember that 1lb a week is best part of 4 stone in a year
and if you do it sustainably you only do it once

Did the Boditrax machine this morning and I'm getting my muscle tone and water balance back on track as well.
Just got to not drink too much at the weekend Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 13:49

Well done on your SV, TiP
That's the most senible attitude

and DO drink this weekend ..... lots & lots of water !

OP posts:
Borris · 18/01/2019 18:16

I’ve had a bad day. Ex is being difficult over divorce stuff. Not bothering to reply to emails or texts but then texting about trivial stuff. I think I need to involve sols. But as a result I’ve ended up munching on a bowl of crisps through the day at work and I’ve had a gin and tonic since home. Slim line tonic but still rubbish

OohMrDarcy · 18/01/2019 19:32

Evening all. Kitchen closed on 507 a couple of hours ago and just water now until bed. Fingers are crossed that I did enough to still lose something tomorrow 🤞

Borris, sorry to hear you are having a crap time. Sounds like some of what I went through 4 years ago - not fun! All I can suggest is try and focus on self care when you can x

BigChoc your Rhine walks sound lovely. I do love a walk by water... feel free to send some inspiring pics !

Well done to those with lovely SVs- TiP , JC and pumped... and anyone I've missed!

Quacking, big yay for a massive NSV of the clear skin... I'm looking forward to that one (remember it well from first time around)

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 19:34

Sorry to hear you are going through this, Borris

Don't let the bastard mess up your WOE as well as everything else.
Feeling bloated the next day, or even worse on monday after a bingey weekend, just adds to the misery

So, glug a glass of water, clean your teeth, then try to relax this evening - and have an early night because you need sleep
This weekend, give yourself TLC, so plenty of nutritious food, water and cut back the junk & booze

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2019 19:35

Well done, MrD

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 19/01/2019 09:39

Lost a pound this week 🎉

Total loss now 10lb- more than my heaviest baby 😂

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2019 10:23

Congrat on your SV, MrD
You are doing really well and forming good habits again

I'm off for a jog along the Rhine now, another lovely sunny day.
I'm fasting - anyone else ?

OP posts:
Icandothis2019 · 19/01/2019 10:28

Ok so I'm a newbie. I've been reading / researching fasting, 5:2, recently come across the fast800, was all very confusing at first but I think I'm getting my head round it now. So just a few questions if i may apologies in advance they have probably been asked before. I have been reading through these very helpful threads.

  1. Has anyone been doing the fast800?
  2. Do people generally prefer the original 5:2 or the fast800?
  3. So I think I'm understating have to stick to the limited calories etc on fast days and then eat normally, ie healthy in non fast days. So on non fast days can you eat small portions of potatoes/ Brown rice / wholewheat pasta ?
  4. Do you eat meat on fast days or non fast days?
  5. Porridge- I love porridge, I usually buy the large bags of porridge oats and make my own with milk, I actually like it plain. But I've been a bit confused with rolled oats, steel cut oats tried searching for different types I just keep getting the same options Hmm
  6. If you have cheese, milk or yoghurt do you have the full fat versions rather than the light options ?
  7. Where can I find info on how much fat, carbs, protein, etc I should be having on non fast days?
I have about 1 and half stone to lose once and for all and maintain it. I like most vegetables, fish, chicken, eggs and have been looking at all the recipe ideas. My biggest challenge will probably be drinking lots of plain old water !! I'm not a big fan of water on its own i usually add some cordial but im going to switch. Any help / advice very much appreciated. Thanks.
Cheeeeislifenow · 19/01/2019 11:12

Hi guys didn't post yesterday as I was busy.
So as you may well remember, I was invited to an unscheduled birthday that included Chinese and cake!
So I had a very small brekkie and a big old salad for lunch!
Then for my Chinese, I had as @BCF suggested, the schezuan prawns and I also had stir fry veg on the side.
The most beautiful looking cake was in front of my eyes, creamy and rainbow coloured. And I resisted it was really really hard.
I also didn't get to for my scheduled walk last night, which I was doing to counteract the Chinese, but my bloody husband scuppered that one by heading to the gym without prior notice! So I couldn't leave the kids!
So I got up early and went for a jog.
I'll be out all day today I have to bring my eldest to a rugby game, we will eat out. I will have a salad. Tonight is my one Saturday night glass of Bailey's and I'll make popcorn too!