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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Iamblossom · 17/01/2019 13:33

ok so aiming for a mini now as toast and marmite happened

Cheeeeislifenow · 17/01/2019 13:41

Hey guys!
Going strong here so far. Ive resisted cake. We went to a gorgeous new Cafe in town, the food looked incredible. I had an Americano, not a milky coffee in sight.
Lunch was spinach, tomato, cucumber, tuna and anchovies. It was divine! And it was 120 calories so plenty left for dinner!

GroovieGazelloo · 17/01/2019 13:51

Go for it Iamblossom . All the best to you.

And thanks for your understanding too Scruffy. I'm feeling much better and have even developed a liking for fresh lime juice in hot water through this latest escapade. so, it's not all been bad. Grin

Also, as I'm feeling better, I've decided to invest some money and time into buying MM's 800 book. I'm going to see where that takes me because I'm more ready to experiment now.

And, yes, I'm very pleased with the overnight weight loss. Wink

Calzone · 17/01/2019 14:35

Ok.....it’s 2.30pm and I’ve fasted so far.

I’m going to have fish cakes and mushy peas for dinner.

Cheeeeislifenow · 17/01/2019 15:26

Mmmm sounds nice calzone!

Ta1kinPeace · 17/01/2019 16:46

I went out for a working pub lunch with a load of colleagues today
Soda and lime to drink, a starter as main course.
That was all
and we are doing veggie bean chimichangas for supper
polishes Halo

greenelephantscarf · 17/01/2019 16:48

holding up so far.
will be pasta & tomato sauce for dinner (no cheese and some extra veg for me)

mickeymacca · 17/01/2019 18:25

well done calzone.. lamblossom hope the rest of your day went ok after the toast incident! I had a haribo incident earlier thats much worse
snail that sourdough oh my word just give me that and a lump of butter I'm in heaven. quacking hope TOTM isnt too harsh on the scales for you.
My B2B could have been better. I'm closing on 844 (see Haribo incident above) overall happy though as I'm planning a mini on Sunday so should be ok
I'm literally closing the kitchen now. I have a flask of herbal tea to see me through so I don't need to go in the kitchen and be tempted by anything. All the best if anyone is fasting tomorrow

JcHcks · 17/01/2019 18:31

Closing the kitchen at 655. Gutted I went over but I was so hungry at work I gave in and had crisps 😫 need to try marmite and other better substitutes. Weighing tomorrow so will be amazed if I've lost 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

Pumperthepumper · 17/01/2019 18:47

Kitchen closed! I’ve decided to try without using MFP for a while, I just find recording everything so dull and kind of panic-inducing in a way, like if I’m even ten calories over I start to beat myself up about it. I don’t think it’s very good for me so I’m going to try for a bit without it and if I don’t see very good results then I’ll try again. BCF I’m sure you said once you don’t record, is that right?

Anyway, fasted fine all day -hummus and carrot sticks for lunch, butternut squash curry and a pitta for dinner, two cups of coffee. Going to have a herbal tea now and read my book for a bit. Weighing tomorrow and hoping to see a bit of a SV 🤞

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2019 18:47

Well done on your SV, Groovie
I hope you are sitting more comfortably now 😏 !
(oh crikey, I'm glad I spotted in time the world's most unfortunate typo with "sitting" ! Blush )

Well done, Mickey, JC

That's a decent attempt, JC
On your FDs, if you are at work, take chopped raw veg with you (no dip or sauce)

  • if you don't need them, you can always have them as a starter for the next day's lunch.
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2019 18:53

Well done, pumper

Once you think your habits are ingrained, no need to mfp if you don't want - they are only training wheels, to be discarded when no longer required.

See how you go for say 2 weeks, then review.
Of course you can revert to mfp any time, if you feel control slipping.

Many people lose on 5:2 without ever counting NFD cals
It's really only those whose "normal" eating is considerably more than they burn, who need to retrain habits - permanently

tbh, I never actually used mfp, even on FDs
but I have a good idea of portion size and what are calorie bombs to avoid etc
and I nearly always base meals on protein with plents of veg, so less likely to go awry.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 17/01/2019 19:33

Thanks BCF, yes, I think I’ll give it a week or two and see how I get on.

greenelephantscarf · 17/01/2019 19:34

kitchen closed at around 600
feeling full but have a raging headache.
hopefully some herbal tea and an early night will help.

well done all thursday fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 17/01/2019 19:41

Evening all

I am so exhausted after last night, amazed I've managed to stay under TDEE! Felt like a zombie at dinner time and could easily have just ordered a take away but I did something for the kids and made something for me too.... easy basic food but stopped me going to overkill.

I'll catch up on all the messages properly tomorrow when I have energy to remember what I've read... but we'll done to any successful FDs and keep on keeping on all!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2019 19:47

Well done, green
Do you have Marmite ?

Glug a teasp (10 cal) for "medicinal" purposes ( so even if you hate the taste) on FDs, mid-morning and / or mid-afternoon
It replenishes salt & other minerals that your body may be low on while it adapts to fasting.
Also, it boost B vits

Have an early night, MrD
You obviously need is

OP posts:
HLBug · 17/01/2019 19:47

Kitchen closing at a smidgen over 1000 cals - it's my third Mini this week so I'm happy enough will that Smile

snailhunter · 17/01/2019 20:45

Kitchen closed on around 550 - nothing till 6, then omelette, salad, yog and berries. Felt quite wobbly at times as was out and doing lots of walking but fine now!

I am not MFPing either, pumper - have found it just makes me think more about food on NFDs. Have been losing fine, so hopefully that means permanent healthy habits. It was great for identifying problem areas but really feel I don’t need it now. Weigh in tomorrow! Well done all fellow fasters.

Cheeeeislifenow · 17/01/2019 21:54

Hi guys my kitchen is closed on 350!!
I had lunch which was a plate of leaves, tomatoes, cucumbers, bit of tuna and a ton of anchovies and a spring onion it was yum!
My dinner was my home made chicken curry, with broccoli and spinach and a boiled egg! No rice!

Really pleased with that, I was not starving at all, all day.
So I have had lots of NSV today!
1: I started volunteering in a charity shop. I am so delighted with this it's one day per week as I'm still looking for part time work.
2: I got word that a course I applied for has accepted me. And I start next week! It's early education through play. I am thrilled because it will give me a real qualification that I can work with!
3: on a more minor note, I get a friend today, who said I looked fantastic and I have clearly list weight!
A good day all around!

Cheeeeislifenow · 17/01/2019 21:56

@snail

Well done you! I like mapping my food I have to say. It keeps me honest!

Cheeeeislifenow · 17/01/2019 21:57

Well done @HLbug

Does anybody drink bone broth?!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2019 21:59

Well done, bug, snail, chee

That's a whole bunch of good news & achievements for you, chee
plus a compliments NSV
You are really changing things for yourself

OP posts:
Cheeeeislifenow · 17/01/2019 21:59

@OohMrDarcy

Maybe you are coming down with something?
Hope you are better tomorrow!

Cheeeeislifenow · 17/01/2019 22:02

I really feel that this is such a positive start to the year.
2018 was absolutely awful and this is a great boost.
I also did something today as well that I have put on the ling finger for so long.
I feel really proud of achieving it!

Cheeeeislifenow · 17/01/2019 22:03

@BCF

Thank you so much!