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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
harriethoyle · 16/01/2019 22:20

Amazing what you can achieve when you don't drink 3 bottles of rose and have bacon and eggs for breakfast every day...Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 22:29

Harrie 😂

Well done, Harrie, bug and any other Wenesday fasters

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 22:30

< pressed too soon >
and of course congrats on your SV, Harrie

OP posts:
mickeymacca · 16/01/2019 22:58

My planned FD yesterday was a write off so I’m doing a b2b today and tomorrow. Great day today closing on 719. Made a nice batch of soup so will have more if that tomorrow too. Am also planning a mini on Sunday as I weigh on a Monday and like the boost it gives me. All the best any fasters tomorrow 💪💪

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 23:13

Well done Mickey
With that plan, you are really going all out to nail your goals
Good luck

OP posts:
Calzone · 16/01/2019 23:14

B.....none
L.....soup with chicken, bowl cereal, yoghurt and fibre one bar
D.....SW cottage pie and beans

But I snacked a little. 😭😭😭 a scone and a hm oat biscuit.

FD TOMORROW.
DEFINITELY
I MIGHT FAST ALL DAY. JUST WATER 💦

mickeymacca · 16/01/2019 23:22

Thanks bcf hope all goes well tomorrow calzone. I deffo need to up my water intake too!

OohMrDarcy · 17/01/2019 00:20

Evening / early morning all!

I survived the team day. I've done about 2hrs of walking across London (Good start)... and my lovely DD made me a packed lunch, which I resisted other than my ham roll and water (😇).

There was a little more wine consumed than planned, but not ridiculously so... alternated with water and whilst I would be over the limit to drive I don't feel drunk in any way.

For dinner I had a prawn starter (ignored most of the sauce / bread) and then my fillet steak and triple cooked chips which were delicious.. I then didn't have desert as didn't want one 😱 and now I'm home.

I am taking all that as a massive success. Work nights out are normally pretty heavy indulgence, so I'm pleased with the choices I made.

Back to it tomorrow for a healthy NFD. FD Friday and then let's see what the weigh in brings .... eeek

Cheeeeislifenow · 17/01/2019 07:30

Hi all, didn't post yesterday busy day. But it was a NFD and I was well under. I had small brekkie, big salad, and then Vietnamese style
pork and used lettuce leaves as wraps. Yum!
No snacks I did have some natural yogurt with blueberries after dinner, which was lovely.
FD2 today. I am meeting a friend for coffee this morning and will be surrounded by cake so that will be hard. And I am feeling really tired today too.
Good luck fellow FD'ERS!

snailhunter · 17/01/2019 07:34

Morning all! FD for me today as long as TOTM headache stays away. Facing down the sourdough I baked yesterday!

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns
OohMrDarcy · 17/01/2019 07:38

Cheese good luck avoiding the cake, you can do it!

Snail, it looks delicious, bit - you can have it tomorrow!

Pumperthepumper · 17/01/2019 07:38

Morning all, FD for me today. Got a busy day ahead so hopefully it’ll pass quickly. Got a very boring hour 4-5 today that I think will be the tough part but I’ll power through. Best of luck everyone 👍

Pumperthepumper · 17/01/2019 07:39

That sourdough looks awesome! I don’t even like bread and sourdough is my weakness. I’ve never been able to master it, thank goodness!

greenelephantscarf · 17/01/2019 07:42

fd for me.
good luck everyone.

that's a fine looking loaf snail

quackingduck222 · 17/01/2019 08:12

Maz - Good to see you back, Hope you had a good Xmas and new year. I hope your FD went well.

Cheddar- your class sounds awesome was it good?

Pop - Well done on loosing 3kg that’s fantastic.

Groovie - Well done on your B2B.
I used to really struggle with the toilet situation and used to have to resort to taking laxatives now and again. I found Asda’s own brand worked but the tummy cramps during the night were horrific. I would only suggest as a last resort.

Rosa - Well done on your FD.

JcHcks- Good luck for your FD today.

AllTalk - Well done on your impromptu FD/ mini.

Bug - Well done on your mini, you’ve done absolutely fantastic. A good couple of FDs under your belt should see you right.

Well done Harriet that’s fab.

Mickey- Well done for yesterday’s FD and good luck for today’s.

Snail that looks awesome, I don’t think I’ve had sourdough before.

Pumper- Good luck for your FD today.

I’m also fasting today, got a busy day doing some DIY. I’ve been struggling a bit, after Xmas I managed to pull back the gain quite quickly but have piled it back on since. TOTM is here so plan 2 FDs this week and will see what Monday brings me on the scales.

Good luck to everyone fasting today

GrannyPenny · 17/01/2019 08:44

Mmmmm Snail that loaf looks yummy. Can't wait until next week and my starters ready.

Have a good day everyone.

snailhunter · 17/01/2019 08:51

resists sourdough Just thought I'd record a nice NSV this morning, too - tried on my Control Trousers that I keep to make sure my waist stays at a reasonable measurement and they fit like a dream.

Iamblossom · 17/01/2019 09:59

nice one snail! God that bread looks awesome I luuuuurve bread.

I am aiming for a 700 second fd today. Will be so happy if I manage it and am posting to here to try and keep me on the straight and narrow.

Have had a greek yog (0%) with seeds and berries, and am planning some eggs for lunch and a tuna salad for tea. The test will be swerving the one glass of white wine shouting at me from the fridge at about 5pm.

Have swum a mile this morning and taking dogs for a walk in the sunshine at lunchtime.

Good luck all fasters today.

JcHcks · 17/01/2019 10:19

lamb well done you on your swim! I haven't done any exercise since I started this, shame on me

Well so far a more successful day than Tuesday. I've had a cup of tea and a satsuma so far and no signs of feeling ill :)

Iamblossom · 17/01/2019 10:21

JcHcks thanks Smile

I find if I drink tea or coffee on an empty tum I feel sick sometimes...

harriethoyle · 17/01/2019 10:26

God @snail that bread looks INCREDIBLE...

NFD here but am holding out til lunch and resisting breakfast granola so it's an IF if nothing else! 300 cal lunch planned and then home made lasagne and salad tonight - going to make cheese sauce with skimmed milk and go very easy on the cheese. So even with a couple of glasses of wine I should be within my TDEE of 1400.

Good luck Thursday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2019 10:40

Awesome loaf !

Good luck, Thursday fasters

Calzone and everyone else
Do NOT do FDs on zero calories
You need some nutrition on FDs, since you are doing them every week
Zero cals risks losing some muscle, which is absolutely not good

Varady compared results for people on 0 / 500 / 0.5 TDEE and found that 500 FDs have the optimum combination of fat loss and full muscle retention

OP posts:
GroovieGazelloo · 17/01/2019 10:49

Well done on your SV harriethoyle, Rosa, JcHcks, on the healthy eating whilst out OohMrDarcy ,on the mini-fasts AllTalk and Bug and on the NSV snailhunter. Smile Smile

Your NFD day sounds yummy Cheeeeislifenow Smile

Thanks for the suggestions re my ever-expanding tum. quackingduck222, BCF and greenelephantscarf
In their own ways, they have all helped me (even the ones where I was the butt of the joke) and guess what, something’s worked and pheouww I’m down 1kg today ! Moral of the story: Do not finish the Christmas cheese before going on FD in 2020 ! Blush

Good luck to today’s FD'ERS too – quackingduck222, greenelephantscarf, (Hope you both have good SV next time round.)
Pumperthepumper (Hope you don’t get too bored) Smile

All the best with your B2Bs mickeymacca and Iamblossom Wink

littlemoon86 · 17/01/2019 11:46

2nd FD of the week today. I’m having blueberries, 1 slice of whole meal bread with 1 egg then a small ready meal later. Good luck everyone!

scruffybarnsley · 17/01/2019 12:11

I'm happy for you Groovie as I struggle with that situation fairly frequently and it's a miserable place to be. Yay also for the weight loss side effects! Smile

Well done to everyone else. Keep on going. Love the idea of 'control trousers'! And how nice when they fit!!