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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/07/2018 08:07

Well done cake

2lbs off this week, so that's last weeks mystery 1lb gain gone and another lb Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2018 08:13

Well done on your SV, 43
An example of why we should ignore unexplained blips

You probably had a 1lb loss the previous week, but it was disguised by hormonal swings / water retention / undigested food etc

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2018 08:14

Well done on nailing your b2b, goblin
You are back on track and in the fasting swing

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/07/2018 08:48

Thanks bcf ordinarily I would have thought sod it and had a binge and then gained again the next week etc etc etc.... maybe let's hope my mindset is changing Smile

BakesCakesAndEats · 07/07/2018 09:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

quackingduck222 · 07/07/2018 10:47

Plus - well done on your lb off. Just keep chipping away at it and it will come. It can be a daunting thought but you will get there I promise you that. This WOL can be slower for some people but I think it more than makes up for it with the flexibility of this WOE. Good luck for next week.

NoUnderpants - well you’ve hit your first mini goal and that’s amazing. I hope you’ve got some nice rewards attached to your goals.
Look at how far you’ve come so far, your doing just great.

43 - wow I can’t believe you don’t do hangovers. Lucky you Grin

Badger - Wow your so hardcore a B2B and a FD. How did you find doing both in a week?

Plus3 have you taken your measurements yet? Mine always came off my waist first annoyingly so as my waist has always been my smallest point. Then my face my chubby cheeks disappeared I have none now. It was most strange as it changed the shape completely from my face from almost round to long oval.

Dove - sorry to hear that. We’re here for you when you want to jump back in.

Well done 43 on your FD.

Calzone - hope your FD went well, you sound like me gerkins make a appearance with everything. Well when DH is home as I can’t get the damn jars open.

Borris - if your aching it’s got to be doing some good. Have you done your measurements?

Cake - Well done on your B2B especially after holiday, it’s tough getting back into it.

BakesCakes - Congratulations on being 5lbs down. That’s absolutely fantastic. 5lbs is loads. If you’ve not dieted before i would say your definitely in the right place. Stick to this WOL and you will never have to diet again.

FD done yesterday, and enjoyed doing some free weights for my arms. I think it’s the 3rd / 4th time I’ve used them. I’m only using 5kg but at first I couldn’t pick them up with one hand but managing no problem now.
I’ve got horrific stretch marks on one arm in particular that are quite visible but when I tense my arm they don’t look as bad so my aim to to try and bulk them up a bit.

dovegrey18 · 07/07/2018 12:05

Thanks BCf. Forgot to say I used to be purple (can't rem if I said before or not)

Great progress bakes!

dovegrey18 · 07/07/2018 12:06

Nice to still see you posting here @quackingduck222 Grin how's the maintenance life goin?

Iamblossom · 07/07/2018 13:08

borris can you post link of abs vid please?

Borris · 07/07/2018 13:15

m.youtube.com/watch?v=yL_dE81O_mw

Borris · 07/07/2018 13:16

This is it. I know very little about exercise but 7 mins a day seems so do able

BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2018 13:42

Well done on your SV, bakescakes
That's an excellent start
As duck says, stick to 5:2 and this can be the first and only diet you'll ever need

< peers under grey's hat and false moustache to see our old chum purple. Waves Smile>

Borris 7 mins is a good time for a really intense blast, that's HIT (not HIIT, btw)

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/07/2018 18:01

Excellent sv bakes

Maybe not so lucky quacking as sometimes I don't know when to stop because I never feel rough Blush

badger82 · 07/07/2018 19:14

Quacking I actually really felt a boost from doing a B2B and a FD, I wouldn't try it every week but I was going to a food and drink festival on Friday eve and was worried as difficult to track stuff like that. As it turned out, I started feeling sick around 9pm and spent all last night throwing up 🤮 think I've got my daughters bug. Feeling very tender today only managed a piece of toast and a couple of pop chips. So calorie intake has been very light this week overall. Will try to replenish tomorrow with some gentle veg and nutritious stuff, maybe some yoghurt to help repair.
Next week am planning FD Monday and Thursday, with a mini at the weekend.

Iamblossom · 07/07/2018 20:15

Sorry to hear that badger get well soon!

So we have just ordered a takeaway for 4 that costs £93 .....Shock

HLBug · 07/07/2018 21:05

blossom what the heck have you ordered?! Gold covered chicken nuggets?!

I'm just back from a lovely day at the seaside - chippy tea followed by ice cream, yum yum yum.

Waves to grey / purple - welcome back, nice to hear from you again Smile

comehomemax · 07/07/2018 21:33

I love hearing how everyone is losing - so motivating. I didn’t drop any weight this week but I wasn’t very disciplined on NFD (it was my birthday plus a few ice creams this week) but I’ve recommitted myself to pushing on. I really want to lose another 4 or 5 lbs by the end of this month.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2018 21:50

Get well soon. badger
For D&V, standard German GP advice is dry toast and plenty of water until symptoms have completely goes - nothing else, no yoghurt, juice, tea etc or even veg
You'll be ok for 2-3 days on this and it gives your gut bacteria etc the best environment in which to recuperate

Important: Drink lots of water

I hope you had a lovely birthday, comehome
Try to keep tomorrow sensible, to make an immediate start on your 4-5 lb target.

43 Booze switches the body from fat-burning to fat storage, especially around the waist
If you want to boost loss, how about a dry 2 weeks ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2018 21:52

badger after D&V, wait a week until symptoms have disappeared before resuming FDs

  • otherwise, alternating between FDs and NFDs can irritate your gut and resume symptoms
OP posts:
Iamblossom · 07/07/2018 21:58

I think I ate £85 of it Blush

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/07/2018 07:40

Grin iam what did you have?

Hope you feel better soon badger

Iamblossom · 08/07/2018 08:01

We NEVER have takeaway and our boys needed cheering up after some bad news so we ordered shed loads of their favourite dishes. Pakoras, Bhajis, a roti bread each, rice no one ate, all the sides.

Looks like there is enough left in the fridge for them to have it for lunch and dinner today!

I am considering a mini today as ate and drank over 3000 calories yesterday and feel poisoned.

quackingduck222 · 08/07/2018 10:06

Dove grey - Yeah it’s going alright, I need to post for accountability if I don’t post for a week I’m shoveling my face with something I shouldn’t. It’s good to see you back.

Badger - how awful. Yes make sure you look after yourself. Make sure your fully recovered before you do a FD.

Bug - that does sound yum, I may order that myself tonight.

ComeHome - good luck for your target for this month. That’s totally doable.

Lamb - I was going to ask if it was a Indian, quite easy to rack up a huge bill as it’s so yummy.

badger82 · 08/07/2018 12:05

Feeling much better today thanks everyone. Had a decent breakfast of avocado, egg & bacon and made some carrot and paprika soup for lunch.
Should be ok to fast tomorrow but if it's hard I'll postpone until later in the week

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2018 19:12

badger I recommend you skip fasting this coming week and just do healthy habits within TDEE
As I posted, even after symptoms have gone, your gut is still recovering. The FD / NFD cycle can overload the recovering gut and your D&V can return

bug can tell you what happened when she decided to risk it ! Wink

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