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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
HLBug · 08/07/2018 19:14

So it turns out yesterday was my first FD anniversary - I've been on this WOL / WOE for a full year now, and I'm happy and proud of what I've achieved.

Unfortunately I've spent the day in bed with a particularly yucky sickness bug. Ah well, tomorrow is a new day and I'm starting to feel a bit better now.

HLBug · 08/07/2018 19:15

badger - BCF is entirely right and I will NOT be making that same mistake twice. Absolutely no fasting for me this week!

calzone · 08/07/2018 20:12

Fasted today.

Chicken and vegetables for dinner followed by fruit, a small meringue and a little light cream.....

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 08/07/2018 20:31

Well done HLBug ! How much have you lost in a year? Smile

Iamblossom · 08/07/2018 20:38

So today's mini went a bit awry but ended on tdee which included an unexpected pub lunch, leftover curry dinner and a large glass of white wine.

Also swam 60 lengths of front crawl and walked dogs for half an hour.

Fd for me tomorrow.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/07/2018 20:58

Mmmm iam that sounds delicious, it's all the side dishes that I love! Sorry that your boys had bad news though

Nfd today and had friend over for dinner and drinks, chicken pesto pasta and garlic bread and strawberry cheesecake, I dread to think of the calories as two pots of double cream were used.... but I only had a small portion of both!! Fd tomorrow I think

badger82 · 08/07/2018 21:12

Ok bug & BCF, I'll listen to the FD gurus and skip this week, feels a bit scary to do that though!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2018 06:17

Morning all and good luck to the Monday fasters Smile

I'm off shortly for a lovely long walk along the Rhine, before the 30C scorching sets in.
Pump class this evening

Happy anniversary, bug (despite the lurgy)
You have worked hard and had a brilliant year Thanks
Get well soon

badger This is a good opportunity for a healthy TLC week within TDEE:

  • no snacking
  • plenty of water
  • Lots of veg

To support your gut recovery - and to help the fear ! - this week only:

  • no alcohol
  • no fizzy drinks, incl diet crap
  • no takeaways
  • no sugary crap, incl breakfast cereal
  • no fruit juice and also avoid citrus whole fruits (apple, orange, lemon ...)- the acid may irritate your gut.

Blossom Yesterday sounds a reasonable NFD, plus a good amount of exercise for woman & dogs.

OP posts:
DaisyandTim · 09/07/2018 06:58

Happy one year anniversary HLBug
Sorry to hear you’ve been poorly Badger something must be doing the rounds as I had upset tummy all weekend so no fasting for me this week.
Good luck to all fasters today and well done to those who fasted over the weekend.

Iamblossom · 09/07/2018 07:31

Morning all.

Checking in for Monday's fast
Not my first and not my last
Water, coffee, prawn omelette
Yoghurt, salad, I'm all set.

I'll do some weights and sweat a bit
Walking the dogs and do some HIIT
The day will fill with Work and jobs
I'll ignore hunger pangs no probs

Good luck fasters!

We're on a roll.
Not food, but me, is in control

💪

calzone · 09/07/2018 07:39

What a super pome blossom! 🌷🌹🌸

BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2018 07:55

Blossom Star Grin

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 09/07/2018 08:01

Bug - Congratulations on your FD Anniversary. Sorry to hear about your bug tho. I was going to ask how much it’s been in total but smiled has beaten me to it Smile

Well done on your FD calzone. Especially on a Sunday.

Blossom- well I hope you had a good day anyway. 60 lengths is impressive.

43 - That sounds yummy. And good on you for just having a small portion.

Daisy - oh no not you as well, hope your recovering well.

Blossom- that’s excellent.

I’m having a FD today, just to mix it up a bit. Quite pleased with my 4 mile run yesterday was absolutely dripping after. I normally don’t break a sweat at all.

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

noideawhattocallmyself · 09/07/2018 08:11

morning hugs to all who are unwell - there definitely seems to be something doing the rounds.
I had FD on Friday but as usual weigh in day is officially Monday and.....
still not in the 12s! I am 13 stone dead :) no matter how much getting on and off the scales or trying for one more wee ( :) ) could move it into 12 something. So onward to next week - 2 weeks to my holidays so aiming for 12st 12lb by then (will just be into overweight rather than obese).
NSV of sorts though - my waist is now below 1m :) which means I've lost 8cm in total which has to be good for my health.
Happy WOL anniversary bug
and happy FD 43 and anyone else fasting today, I was planning on sticking to Wednesday and Friday but I may have a little drink with the football on Wednesday so perhaps a B2B Thursday / Friday instead Wink

badger82 · 09/07/2018 08:35

LOVE the poem Blossom

HLBug · 09/07/2018 08:36

smiled / duck to answer your questions I stopped losing weight and started maintaining in May - that was at 4 stones off. Boring progress report below:

7 July
Starting Weight: 12 stone 12 pounds
Target Weight: 10 stone 3 pounds

4 October
Current Weight: 11 stone 7 pounds
Weeks on 5:2: 12.5 weeks
Total Loss: 19 pounds

13 October
Current Weight: 11 stone 3 pounds
Weeks on 5:2: 14 weeks
Total Loss: 23 pounds

04 November
Current Weight: 11 stone 1 pound
Weeks on 5:2: 17 weeks
Total Loss: 25 pounds

07 December
Current Weight: 10 stone 6 pound
Weeks on 5:2: 22 weeks
Total Loss: 34 pounds

12 January
Current Weight: 10 stone 1 pound
Weeks on 5:2: 27 weeks
Total Loss: 39 pounds

25 January
Current Weight: 9st 11lb
Weeks on 5:2: 29 weeks
Total Loss: 43 pounds

07 March
Current Weight: 9st 4lb
Weeks on 5:2: 39 weeks
Total Loss: 50 pounds

10 May
Current Weight: 8st 12lb
Weeks on 5:2: 48 weeks
Total Loss: 56 pounds

Today I'm actually sitting at 8st 7.5lbs because I couldn't resist the temptation of weighing in after sickness bug BlushBlushBlush

Star to you for that poem blossom - good luck to all the Monday Fasters today. I will be mainly be spending the day rehydrating.

HLBug · 09/07/2018 08:38

Although I can see from the above that my counting of "weeks on 5:2" has clearly gone wrong somewhere as 10 May was not only 4 weeks ago Confused

Iamblossom · 09/07/2018 08:45

Wow hl that is very inspiring. Did you have buy heaps of new clothes?

badger82 · 09/07/2018 09:24

That's great to see Bug. What were the major things that worked do you think, aside from FDs

MightyMunki · 09/07/2018 09:44

Bug that’s so inspiring. I have found you guys again, started in January this year, fell off the 5:2 wagon in May but getting back on today. 11lbs lighter than I started.
I’m 11st 6lb and want to get to 10st.

Iamblossom · 09/07/2018 11:14

choose for me ladies - gym or swim at lunchtime?

badger82 · 09/07/2018 11:40

Blossom - swim!! So hot the water will be bliss

Iamblossom · 09/07/2018 11:56

Swim it is.

Ta1kinPeace · 09/07/2018 12:01

Popping back in to say Hi.

I LOVE the thread title - I think its sweaty fingers rubbed through sweaty hair and then touching communal food that is helping my weight loss at the moment !

Good things about hot weather - its easy to not want to eat during the day
Bad things about hot weather - Ouzo makes the heat more bearable Grin

Iamblossom · 09/07/2018 12:10

hey TIP! [waves]

4 water crackers so far.