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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Naughtysausage · 31/07/2018 21:56

Back from another holiday and checking in at the end of day 1 of a b2b. Have been HUNGRY today which is not like me.

Tomorrow will be better. There's about 400 posts to catch up with on the thread. Might not read them all. Anything exciting I might have missed? Is there a new prawn omelette?

Borris · 01/08/2018 07:49

Down 0.1kg. Surprised that I’m down after this week. Still not below that weekend away that seemed to do so much damage!! I’ve been hovering around the 67-67.5kg for 3 weeks now.

Planning to have my hols. Enjoy myself but be sensible and then start afresh when I’m home. Poss mfp every day for a few weeks to try to get down to the 66kg AND stay there.

Good luck to today’s fasters!!

Borris · 01/08/2018 07:50

Naughtysausage - I’m still prawn omeletting!!!!

Hockneypool · 01/08/2018 08:41

Morning all

Delighted with a 2lb loss this morning 9.5. It’s feels like it takes ages for my body to get into weight loss mode. But now I’m getting there. Need to keep with the exercise and the low alcohol consumption!

New York we all have Fd days like that. I think it’s life, and it’s still a good deficit.

Naughty good luck with day 2 of b2b.

Think the prawn omelette is still winning.

Iamblossom · 01/08/2018 09:26

Not a good nfd yesterday, reasonably good food just too much of it!

Iamblossom · 01/08/2018 09:26

Well done Hockney

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 01/08/2018 09:33

morning all, some excellent SVs and NSVs Smile well done everyone (can't scroll back to get everyone's names!)

whoever mentioned Skyr upthread, I must admit I feel exactly the same, dry to eat - such a weird feeling in the mouth Envy

Stircrazyschoolmum · 01/08/2018 11:09

Morning folks

FD2 here - it was supposed to be tomorrow but the food I had in the fridge kind of fitted with doing it today, so there we go. It means there will be a big gap until my next one on Monday, so I might try and do a mini day on Sat to tide me over.

Have been cleaning like a dervish all morning which has distracted me from food so far.

Wishing everyone a good day. xx

quackingduck222 · 01/08/2018 11:19

Borris - I hope you had a fantastic birthday. Congrats on your loss this week.

Dove - glad to see you reacquainted yourself with the toilet Grin you may as well just live in there a it saves time. And congrats on your 3lb loss, awesome stuff.

NewYork - what a incredible milestone coming your way soon.

Smiled- congratulations on your huge SV, 2 stone off is incredible.

Boys - I echo what stircrazy said don’t beat yourself. Can be easily done sometimes but the main thing is you’ve caught it.

Dropzone- are you taking those pills nothestirine or something like that? If you are I would say take your weight with a pinch of salt as I literally blew up on them on holiday a few years ago seemed all water weight.

Well done on your FD HonkyWonk

NewYork - don’t beat yourself up, 900cals is a very good mini fast.
These things happen. Flowers

Naughty good luck for your B2B, hope you had a fab holiday.

Hockey- Congratulations on your loss too. Wow lots of SV today.

43 - funny how we all have different tastes, I love Lidl and everything I’ve ever tried apart from there Greek yogurt also hate Iceland’s too that one was particularly vile.

FD for me today, tea planned so I don’t need to think about it. Will also do run and some weights today.

Good luck to all the fasters and B2Bers today.

MazDazzle · 01/08/2018 11:36

Lidl’s Greek yogurt is my favourite one!

Glad the tattoo is healing well 43. You could always wear oven gloves in the style of Phoebe from ‘Friends’ if the itch gets too much!

Day 1 of b2b today. DH js away for a few days, so it should make fasting easier since it’s juat me and the kids.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/08/2018 12:14

Well done on your SV, hockney
Sounds like you are in fasting mode now.

Borris That's sts - your body can naturally fluctuate 10 x that amount - but sts is good if you had an indulgent week.
Ignore tiny changes in either direction, because they are just "noise" in the measurements and have no cause.

OP posts:
plus3 · 01/08/2018 15:36

Hi everyone - FD yesterday - had an egg sandwich & cup of tea - 330 Cals. That was it - way too busy, came home straight to bed.
Today I wasn’t hungry for breakfast until 11.30 ish, so NFD currently going very well!

Borris · 01/08/2018 17:17

I’m being thick. What does sts mean?

BigChocFrenzy · 01/08/2018 18:10

sts = stay the same
We have alphabet soup as well as the edible kind ! Wink

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/08/2018 18:11

Sounds like you're zipping through in style, plus
I hope the NFD continues that well for you

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 01/08/2018 18:36

Successful FD with kitchen closed at 472.

Tomorrow is supposed to be day 2 of b2b, but my friend’s just messaged asking if I want to join her on a picnic tomorrow with the kids. I really need to get FD2 out of the way though! I suppose I could eat 500 at the picnic and nothing else the rest of the day.

newyorklover1 · 01/08/2018 18:47

After my failed fast yesterday I fasted again today and closing the kitchen on 595! Still over my usual 500 but I only had 900 cals yesterday so I'm not too worried!

I'm really slacking with the water drinking tho Blush need to start upping my intake again

Naughtysausage · 01/08/2018 19:53

Good to know the prawn omelette lives on!

Day 2 of b2b was fine. But am very looking forward to my breakfast tomorrow. (Overnight oats steeping in the fridge right now)

Tonight, as a self care FD, I'm treating myself to... the ironing! Might find a rom com on Netflix. Any recommendations?

Borris · 01/08/2018 19:56

maz b2b gives you 650 a day and I think if you’ve only had 500 today then you can stretch to 800 tomorrow - that might accommodate a careful picnic!

Thanks bcf 🙈

Iamblossom · 01/08/2018 20:39

Viva la omelette de prawn!!

HLBug · 01/08/2018 22:20

FD for me today - kitchen closed at about 600 cals. I had a "just over" mini on Monday (about 1100 calories) so I think that's me done for the week. I can also feel a cold coming on...too many extra hours spent doing work this last few weeks and I think it's all beginning to catch up with me. DH currently away with work but back tomorrow hopefully - can't wait for him take over with the kids!!

dovegrey18 · 01/08/2018 22:34

FD tomorrow.. whose in??

plus3 · 01/08/2018 23:53

I am Smile

MazDazzle · 01/08/2018 23:57

A prawn omelette? Yuk, yuk, yuk. The thought alone is putting me off food!

MazDazzle · 02/08/2018 00:01

Even on b2b FDs Borris, I usually aim for

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