Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 30/07/2018 23:29

Well done on your SV, NewYork
Excellent progress on your 1st 4 weeks and not far to go to healthy BMI

Well done, Monday fasters Smile

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 31/07/2018 06:53

I had to go to bed at 8.30 last night - DH was watching back to back cooking shows!! Shock

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 31/07/2018 07:37

Fab loss newyork well done.

Oh no iam how rude Shock but hopefully he's picked up some lovely recipes to try out?

Woken up hungry which I rarely do but have a walk and picnic in the woods planned with ds and a friend and their ds so going to try and hold out till lunchtime.

Hope everyone has a good day Smile

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 31/07/2018 08:12

FD1 for me today so just checking in.
I missed 2nd FD last week so only did the one.
Hopped on the scales just now and have 1.1/2 stone to go before I see 12st.

Holiday is another week so hoping to be below 12 for that! Smile

Still have another 1.5 stone to lose but I have lost 2st this last year so am feeling hopeful for the future.

Thanks again for the inspiration on this thread it's much appreciated ThanksHalo

Crashbumpthud · 31/07/2018 08:13

Checking in for day 2! Well done newyork that's amazing!!!

Crashbumpthud · 31/07/2018 08:14

You can do it smiled. What a fantastic loss already Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 31/07/2018 08:58

Well done on losing 2 stone, smiled Great achievement
Onwards to the 11 stone something

blossom Eek ! - he should have recorded them and watched them another time

OP posts:
Boysmomma · 31/07/2018 09:05

Morning all!

@Plus that's amazing, I definately would not have that self control Grin

@NewYork that's a fantastic achievement, also good to know it gets easier!

@Smiled wow! I can't imagine ever seeing a 12 on the scales again well done!!

@43 hope the tattoo is healing nicely

First FD here, I had a bad day yesterday, completely miscalculated calories and went 400 over, 400 how do you even do that! I knew it was too good to be true. See what I can undo this week!

Good luck fasters!

dovegrey18 · 31/07/2018 09:43

3lbs off after my first FD (after a few months) Grin next FD scheduled for Thursday

Stircrazyschoolmum · 31/07/2018 09:48

boys don’t beat yourself up.. I think it’s really easy to do, some foods contain waaay more calories than you’d expect. (Its cheese that gets me... I love cheese!) Its a new day today, hang in there.

Well done NY and smiled I love hearing the losses, it makes me have faith this way of eating really works.

NFD for me today, just had a late breakfast and going to continue with my decluttering whilst the kids are at camp. I can’t believe they’ve grown out of all their clothes again! 🤣

DaisyandTim · 31/07/2018 09:53

Brilliant newyork that’s a great SV

And well done smiled you’re over halfway there

Have a lovely picnic fortythree

NFD here for me, a scale check this morning shows i’ve lost half the gain which I’m pleased about. Woke up hungry so decided to have some berries and try some Skyr yoghurt but it’s not for me, I know loads of people love it but I found it really dry so just berries and a cup of tea until lunch for me Brew

Good luck to everyone for today

mydailymailhell · 31/07/2018 10:20

Thanks for the tips BCF. My NFDs are letting me down I think as, apart from midway through my cycle, I don’t find FDs too difficult. First FD of the week today and am trying to do an hours brisk walk every day this week. Haven’t weighed myself yet this week but will do so tomorrow. Really hope to get down to my pre pregnancy weight of 123 lbs and then knock off another half a stone to get down to my ideal weight (I am incredibly short!). Good luck to all the Tuesday fastest!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/07/2018 12:19

Well done on your SV, daisy

Good luck on your FD Boys
It's fine to ease in gently with 800 cals if you need that, just don't eat on impulser and carefully measure out any extra

OP posts:
Borris · 31/07/2018 12:44

FD2 is a hungry one! Just had lunch. Holding out till dinner now. Fizzy water is helping

DropZoneOne · 31/07/2018 17:59

FD for me today, and it's haaaard 😭 My period is due but I'm delaying it so that my next period misses my holiday, but that means I'll be hungry and grumpy for a long time. And no idea what it will do to my weight, ho hum.

M&S egg and potato salad for lunch, 172 calories, plus two cups of tea. No idea what to have for dinner though - I normally have omelette but I just don't fancy it.

HonkyWonkWoman · 31/07/2018 18:38

Got through Fd1 with the help of black coffee and a Bovril and Marmite drink.
Having Turkey mince curry and cauliflower rice and blueberries and a Greek yogurt soon. Should finish at just on 500!
Next Fd2 will be Friday!

Hockneypool · 31/07/2018 18:39

Fast day here. Very busy and long morning so didn’t eat until 3 pm. Slice of toast - not the best thing but no easy food in the house. Then early tea of venison stew with beans, chestnuts and peas. Tasted a lot better than it sounds!

Weighing in tomorrow and hoping for a a loss. Also SV this morning wearing my skinny linen trousers yay. It’s not really warm enough (Scotland) but I don’t care😊

Stay strong Borris and Drop - we are nearly there and the hard work has been done. 👍

Hockneypool · 31/07/2018 18:40

Well done Honky too

HonkyWonkWoman · 31/07/2018 18:46

Thanks for kind encouragement Hockney!
The Venison Stew sounds delicious to me!
Nice NSV with the skinny Linen trousers.
I've found that I have enjoyed buying clothes this Summer as I have felt more confident in my body.

Such a good feeling! Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 31/07/2018 19:32

Well done on your trousers NSV, honky
Phew, I wish it were cool enough for trews here - asnother 38C day < wipes sweat from thread >

OP posts:
Hockneypool · 31/07/2018 19:56

Good grief BCF, 38C is hot and pretty relentless.

When we drove into London on Thursday,from Yorkshire, it got hotter and hotter, until the car was saying 36.5C. We enjoyed the heat for the few days - it’s a total novelty for us.

Borris · 31/07/2018 20:09

hockney enjoy wearing the trousers. Weigh day tomorrow for me too but not expecting miracles. Still I’m off on hols for a fortnight this weekend so will just try not to cause too much damage and hit it hard on my return. I’ll be looking fab by Christmas Smile

newyorklover1 · 31/07/2018 20:55

Oh no I posted the other day about it getting easier and I had my first failed fast today!

I've ended the day on 900 calories. I was doing ok until tea time and was ravenous and ended up with toast which brought me just under 800 which would have been ok but then I had 3 squares of galaxy Sad it was looking at me in the fridge and I was worrying about finances and it was an emotional binge (not really a binge for 3 squares but you know what I mean)

BigChocFrenzy · 31/07/2018 21:11

Never mind, newyork we all have days that go off-plan
and it was still a large calorie deficit.

Just move on and focus on good NFDs this week, then nail the next scheduled FD
I recommend in most cases you don't add extra ones, because it can feel like punishment, which we should never do to ourselves here

OP posts:
newyorklover1 · 31/07/2018 21:16

Thanks bigchoc Smile (your name is making me feel like more galaxy Grin)

I will do a fast day on Friday and continue my nfds as normal! Like you say I've still got a deficit Smile