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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/07/2018 08:31

Glad its slightly cooler for you bcf even if its only a temporary let up!

maz you will soon have that stone off, enjoy your camping trip Smile tattoo is fine, I don't think they really hurt, I must have a high pain threshold, or maybe enough padding all over to compensate Grin

Well done on your bike ride hockney

Welcome back from your hols daisy, hope you had a lovely time, you'll soon get rid of the gain

FD today but needed a skinny latte to get me going this morning, good luck fellow mon fasters Smile

quackingduck222 · 30/07/2018 09:03

43 - how did your tattoo go?

Blossom- was a shock wearing jeans here too yesterday. A good poop and a FD will sort you right out.

Boys - congratulations on your scale Victory that’s fantastic.

StirCrazy - well done on the temptation resisting that’s a huge milestone.

Maz - I would definitely try weighing again on a couple of days. Once TOTM buggers off and the leftover food is out of your system hopefully that number should go down quite a bit.

Hockney - Congratulations of your bike ride and fabulous bling.

Daisy - hope you had a lovely holiday. That gain should disappear pretty sharpish. I’ve always found regain weight drops off quicker than loosing it the first time.

Good weekly weigh in for me today sitting at 0.8 over target.

Good luck to any fasters today.

dovegrey18 · 30/07/2018 09:33

Right I'm back. FD today. Will be posting a lot to keep me in check.

Somehow I'm 9st 6lbs - seems to have creeped on. I maintained at 9 stone for ages! TOTM so hoping some of it is water retention and the rest comes off quickly.

I can do this.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/07/2018 10:11

I'm sitting in the shade by the Rhine, Kindling,
with some noisy birds cooling and fluttering in their nest above me

one has just done the most enormous crap on my (bare) leg EnvyEnvy

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/07/2018 10:12

oh dear.... isn't bird shit considered lucky though Grin or is that what you tell people to make them feel better about it!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/07/2018 10:44

well done on your weigh in quacking

Tattoo is fab thanks Grin and no pain, just a little awkward to sleep as its on my back

Hungry today and trying very hard to resist the chocolate covered pretzels that are in the office

dovegrey18 · 30/07/2018 12:12

So it's lunchtime and I'm going for a walk. Getting hunger pangs but I'm holding off til about 1 when I'll have a weetobix. Not the best good choice I know but I'll work on choices after I've got the FD's nailed!

plus3 · 30/07/2018 12:27

Morning everyone - I feel like my eating habits are shifting. I feel less hungry, less inclined to just find something to eat.
There was cake - 3 types at work yesterday...I didn’t have any.

Stircrazyschoolmum · 30/07/2018 12:53

Hey all

Keep going fellow fasters! (dove crash 43) I’ve just had a spinach Omlete for lunch and have soup planned for tea. I think I may’ve undone some of my good work over the weekend. Have decided that calories are too precious to waste on booze so aiming for a wine free week.

BCF I’m trying not to giggle about the bird poo, but I’m sure it’s meant to be lucky

43 glad the tattoo has gone well.

plus much respect on the cake... 3 types?!?

well done on your SV quacking you earned it!

Have a lovely day everyone. xx

Borris · 30/07/2018 13:29

I’m back for my first FD in 7 days. I don’t think the scales will be amazing me on weds but never mind. I enjoyed my birthday Wink

dovegrey18 · 30/07/2018 14:36

To get through the afternoon slump..... I've already made about 5 loo trips today with all the water I've been drinking

BigChocFrenzy · 30/07/2018 14:43

sounds a good plan, stircrazy
and keep to NHS alcohol limits at the weekend - it also helps stop nibbling

I hope you & 43 are right about it being lucky to be dive-bombed by birds releasing their load Wink < waits for next lottery results >

Plus Well done with refusing the assorted communal cake - which undoubtedly had POO crumbs

Stay focused, dove
Weetabix is healthy if you don't bury it with sugar and OK for an FD if it doesn't spike hungerWink

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/07/2018 14:45

Not sure where that last emoticon came from

OP posts:
dovegrey18 · 30/07/2018 14:50

Thanks! I'm just bored at work which makes me want to eat

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/07/2018 18:38

Kitchen closed slightly over at 549... trying to resist the Greek yogurt in the fridge, I can have it tomorrow :-)

How's everyone else getting on?

bcf any good fortune come your way since the bird incident Grin

Iamblossom · 30/07/2018 18:45

Kitchen closed on 780 for a maintenance fast day.

Plus two dog walks and a mile swim.

Crashbumpthud · 30/07/2018 19:32

FD completed. I've done an 800 cal day. It's easier and I have space in the diary for 2 more 800 cal days this week Smile

Yuck, BCF but I think it is supposed to be lucky!

Well done dove, 43, borris and any others!

Crashbumpthud · 30/07/2018 19:33

(I think doing 800cal days is ok, isn't it...?)

BigChocFrenzy · 30/07/2018 19:41

crash If you are doing 3 FDs, then people lose just as well on 800-1000 cals for 3 days as on regular 5:2.
Some find it easier, e.g. Mon+Wed+Fri

If you have a high TDEE, say 2400+, then 2 x 800 FDs weekly also work well,
or on maintenance for any TDEE

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/07/2018 19:42

43, crash No, upto 36C again today, so definitely no luck arrived yet from the bird dump

OP posts:
Crashbumpthud · 30/07/2018 19:48

BCF I thought I'd try mon, Tuesday and Friday.

Well done blossom

Hoping the luck arrives soon!

Stircrazyschoolmum · 30/07/2018 20:21

Kitchen closed at 538.

Cheated a bit with an eve ready meal but it’s meant there is little washing up to do! Might go to bed early, will save me getting peckish later!

I think I’ll avoid the scales till till Thurs as I’m not expecting much movement this week!

Well done to all the other fasters and nite nite! xx

Borris · 30/07/2018 21:12

Finished work late tonight so just tucking into a prawn omelette and salad.

newyorklover1 · 30/07/2018 21:15

Hi, I'm still here but not posted much. I was pleased after my third fast last week and I've lost 10lbs in Total up to now (I started on 1st July) I have another 9lbs to go to get to a healthy bmi.

I'm completing my second fast of the week tomorrow already Smile

Got to say I'm finding this so easy now I'm in week 5! Grin I love it!

dovegrey18 · 30/07/2018 21:22

Fab SV Newyorker!

Cheese omelette here tonight. Kitchen closed at approx 500 cals.

Just getting into bed now. Night all

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