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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
plus3 · 24/07/2018 19:54

So another question...does anybody know what steroids do to your metabolism?
Since being diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis I have had 2 courses. The 2nd course gave me the typical ‘moon-face’ in 2015. It went once the steroids stopped, but the weight didn’t really go. I have consistently between 12-12.10 since then. - - not really clutching at straws - -

DropZoneOne · 24/07/2018 20:32

Bloody hell quacking 7st12?! I haven't seen a number like that on the scales for 20 years Shock and I'm 5ft3 as well.

Snacking is definitely my downfall, and im finding the hot weather is helping. I'm drinking so much water that I just don't want to eat anything.

dovegrey18 · 24/07/2018 20:41

I jumped on a couple of weeks ago but haven't been back since. Really need to get back into this WOL.

First FD planned on Thursday. I can do it. I felt so much better on this WOL that the benefits alone are worth it. The weight loss is a happy side effectGrin

Tomorrow I'll be drinking lots of water and eating to TDEE.

dovegrey18 · 24/07/2018 20:45

HLBug well done to getting to goal and in the 8's as well! We were both around the same before I took this break. I've just not been feeling 100% so felt like I needed to take it easy for a bit but I'm picking up a little now and feel ready to tackle this next stone!

I've been hovering around 9 stone so that's a plus I suppose. Least I never put it all back on!

Ta1kinpeace · 24/07/2018 20:59

Here's a funny thing ...
its my 25th wedding anniversary this summer
and I fancy wearing my wedding dress at some stage ...

anybody know a good tailor ....

as it was a size 16 and I'm now a muscular size 8/10 Grin

I could do with losing a couple more kilos but will save that for when University term starts in September and DH and I can eat vegan / veggie food for much of the week Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/07/2018 22:06

Wow talkin that is bloody amazing Smile and Flowers for your anniversary.

Welcome back dove

badger82 · 24/07/2018 22:14

FD postponed until tomorrow, didn't MFP either so no idea...bad Badger today 🙊

BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2018 00:11

TiP Grin You'll have enough material left over to make another dress !
I wish you & MrTiP a fabulous 25th celebration Thanks

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2018 00:24

Welcome back, Dove
Good to hear you are feeling better
That's useful that you could sts during your break

plus WIth a plateau, you have to really focus and control those weekends
A plateau is by definition at least 3 weeks, but can last several weeks, particularly if you go off track.

Duck, bug are typical in that they broke their plateaus by persistence and focusing on sensible eating & drinking.

So, best advice is to stay on track, no blowouts for 3 weeks

As I posted earlier, you could try 5:2 Boot Camp - or as much of it as you can manage in 3 weeks - to break through:

  • 4:3 with 500 cal FDs
  • No booze, no sugary treats, no fizzy drinks including diet ones
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2018 00:25

badger Just move on, plan this next FD - and nail it, as you know you can.

OP posts:
badger82 · 25/07/2018 05:41

Yup. Clean fast today! 👯‍♀️

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/07/2018 08:07

dont worry about it badger just nail your FD today Grin

NFD here today and I will be easily within TDEE and NO ALCOHOL Smile even though its just me and DS all day Shock

Good luck weds fasters

Boysmomma · 25/07/2018 08:41

My first FD!

I skipped breakfast, having read through everyone's posts it seems to be the best idea, lunch and dinner made then random snacks in the fridge to bring me up to 640cal for the day. I've peppermint tea at the ready, plenty of water and going for a nice walk this evening as well. Few people have mentioned marmite to help keep the headaches etc away, I hate the stuff! Would Bovril or something else work?

Fingers crossed for us all Grin I think the adrenaline will get me through today!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/07/2018 08:48

good luck boys but instead of having snacks at the ready, try and have whatever it is at the end of your lunch / dinner.

I think some people have a bovril drink and that's fine on a fd

Keep posting here to keep you occupied Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2018 08:53

Phew, 35C all week here Sad
Pump tonight - gym with no air con.

Good luck, Boys
I regard Marmite as a teasp medicine to glug down quickly. I've actually grown to like it.
A tbsp unsweetened soy sauce works too - note "tbsp" for this and check no added sugar.

Snacks often make you hungrier - especially fruit on its own - usually best even on FDs to move them into one of your meals

OP posts:
Boysmomma · 25/07/2018 09:09

Ok, noted thank you! Are fruits just best avoided? Sorry, I tried replacing snacking on crisps and choc with fruit and now slowly trying to work it down to zero snacking. It's a terrible habit and I'll be honest i sometimes don't even realise I'm doing it, the shame!

I have Bovril, I have nail varnish remover and loads of beautiful colours to keep me busy and my hands out of the snack bin, and most importantly Fourtythree I have this thread so you will be hearing a LOT from me today haha!

BCF soy sauce! Really? Do you just take it straight or is it like a tea or something?

Ta1kinpeace · 25/07/2018 09:18

Boysmomma
One of my faves was a teaspoon of miso paste (sainsburys sell it) into a cup with boiling water and then some chopped chives
its like a mini cup a soup but zilch calories

if you HAVE to snack, munch on a whole raw carrot, bugs bunny style - it will take you quite a while and be zilch calories

quackingduck222 · 25/07/2018 10:14

Plus 3 - sad to hear your having a plateau.it is very hard and easy to loose motivation. Just try and stick with it and push through when it does shift you very well may find you have a whoosh effect. But totally understand how annoying it is.

43 - well done on your FD.

DropZone - That’s great about the snacking as your drinking lots. Really does fill you up.

Dove - good to see you back, you can do it. You sound like your in a good frame of mind and that really helps.

TiP what a amazing achievement.

Badger - good luck for your FD.

Boys - good luck for your first FD. I think it’s very wise to skip breakfast. Bovril is fine. Try to drink lots and keep yourself occupied.
Just seen your post nail varnish is a great one to keep your fingers from snacking.
Hope you nail it. No pun intended Grin

Iamblossom · 25/07/2018 10:59

I think what panics me about not snacking is I would then have to increase my meal sizes. And then what if I snack as well?

newyorklover1 · 25/07/2018 11:53

2nd fd of the week for me today. I'm excited to see what I weigh tomorrow. I'm worried that after my bad weekend I won't weigh any less than after my 2nd fast day last week Sad so if that is the case I'm going to do a third fd on Friday.

This my third week fasting and it's definitely easier. I'm just not as hungry as I was in the first week.

Ta1kinpeace · 25/07/2018 12:09

blossom
I think what panics me about not snacking is I would then have to increase my meal sizes
No, you use it as a way to eat less without restricting your meal sizes Grin

newyork
Your body is learning to use up the 10,000 calories on the back of your hips and your tummy is starting to realise that vacuuming into the corners is no bad thing

Boysmomma · 25/07/2018 14:29

Right, got through lunch 244 calories inc measured milk set aside for coffee (once it's gone tough shit!), used one of DS's bottles for my old breast pump, this has caused a few sideways glances from the dad's in the office but no comments yet Grin

Surprisingly not feeling too bad. I'm waiting for the weakness and screams of agony as my stomach searches for it's hourly sugar boost but nothing yet. Is this normal for day one? The excitement fooling me into thinking it's all roses?

I have a shed load of fat stores so I'm in no danger, sticking to protein and veg and I have a potato set aside for dinner

HonkyWonkWoman · 25/07/2018 14:36

So have had to abandon my Fd as a Df is arriving to look through her huge suitcase which lives in my attic. She lives in hotter climes and leaves her UK visiting clothes here.

I can hardly offer her a Cup of Marmite after not seeing her for six months so I'll reschedule 2nd Fd for Saturday as not doing much.
That's the beauty of 5/2 you can just make it fit in with your life.
Good luck Wednesday Fasters!

Stircrazyschoolmum · 25/07/2018 14:54

Just catching up on posts and nearly spat out my tea (NFD!)
Boys.. I thought you were going to drink the nail varnish remover!!! Doh! Heat has melted brain!

Homemade ice lollies (weak no sugar added squash in a lolly mold) are going down well here.

43, I’m home alone with kids too.. well done on new snacks and no alcohol!! I’ve given up on screen time rules and banished them to the basement! Had a massive wine craving yesterday, only the thought of undoing all my losses kept me through it.

FD tomorrow so allowed myself a spud for lunch and pasta for tea. If I deprive myself too much on NFD I will be a nightmare tomorrow.

Keep going fasters! xx

BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2018 15:10

boys I just glug down the Marmite / soya sauce
As I said knock it back like medicine, to avoid headaches / weakness while your body is getting used to fasting

OP posts:
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